Ollie Perryman waited all day Thursday - through testimony from judges, from probation, parole and prison officials, from criminal justice experts.

He waited seven hours - through lunch - to give the perspective of an ex-felon to members of the Legislature's Sentencing and Recidivism Task Force.

The No. 1 problem in prisons is overcrowding, he said. And people will continue to return to prison if they don't get training and rehabilitation when they are inside.

Many aren't getting what they need.

"It's impossible for an individual to get mind-changing experiences in prison due to extensive waiting lists" for job training, mental health and substance abuse treatment, and high school diploma programs, Perryman said.

The legislative task force, chaired by Omaha Sen. Pete Pirsch, was gathering views on how to improve the state's sentencing process, lower the rate of return to prison and reduce prison populations.

Nebraska prisons are collectively at about 140 percent of capacity, with some individual prisons much higher.

Perryman - president and founder of Frontline Inc., which focuses on gang intervention, mentoring and re-entry to society - was in and out of a number of juvenile and adult prisons in Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado and California.

Inmates must be able to get jobs when they get out - and the vast majority of them will get out - or they will revert to the same thing that put them in prison in the first place, he said.

If there's nothing inside for them, there's nothing outside.

It was, more or less, the mantra of almost everyone who testified at the task force hearing at the Capitol. Without rehabilitation, job training and community programs that help with things like substance abuse, there's little left to do but build more prisons. And the state already has 10.

Four judges talked about the need for problem-solving courts, such as drug courts, DUI and domestic violence courts, and re-entry and young offenders programs. At least one judicial district in the state - District 5, with 11 counties, including Seward, Saunders and York - has no problem-solving courts.

"As much as has been done, it is not enough," said Lancaster County District Judge Karen Flowers.

For a long time, she said, the state has been at a standstill on re-entry programs. The money has not been forthcoming, and the Legislature has increased penalties for myriad offenses and created new ones.

"We do not appear to be on the same page and we cannot continue this way," she said. "The three branches of government are in this boat together. It is about time we all started rowing in the same direction."

District Judge Robert Ide agreed the solution was early and accurate intervention, especially with substance abuse evaluation and treatment.

The No. 1 chemical problem is still alcohol, he said. It's hard to find effective chemical treatment programs.

District Judge John Icenogle said a culture of drug use exists in this state, and an acceptance of it that previously did not exist. That lifestyle is directly tied to the violence in metro areas, he said.

Department of Corrections Director Robert Houston presented the task force with information that showed the inmate population in Nebraska's prisons will increase by about 116 inmates each year in the next decade.

To ease the growth, he suggested the task force focus on keeping inmates serving 12 months or less in their communities, at no added cost to local government. And he suggested lowering the cost of incarceration at the county and city level.

Among the important things the state could do, he said, would be to expand the prison industries program, supplying more jobs within the prisons for those inmates who want something to do and to better themselves.

The Cornhusker State Industries program pays for itself and employs about 550 people. Houston would like to see that doubled, if there was more demand for the products.

The Corrections Department goal, he said, is to reduce the prison population to 125 percent of capacity, which would mean a reduction of 476 inmates.

A key challenge is the sex offender population, Houston said. One thousand of 4,400 inmates are in prison for sex offenses. The state needs to come to terms with how it handles sex offenses and how it prepares those offenders for eventual release, he said.

Nebraska criminal justice researcher Hank Robinson told the committee the state is short on capacity for every level of service needed by offenders.

To be successful, he said, people have to be stable in six core areas: housing, a positive social network, education, employment, mental health and substance abuse.

Reach JoAnne Young at 473-7228 or jyoung@journalstar.com.