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Letters, 7/18: Removing troops a bad idea

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Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 12:47:09 am CDT

It’s almost universally agreed now that Bush’s war in Iraq was a terrible mistake. What is less agreed upon is what to do about it.

Some people, including many with whom I agree on other issues, say we should leave Iraq practically immediately. They say our leaving will induce the Iraqi government to get serious about its job, and then there will be peace and order.

It seems to me that this is the same kind of wishful thinking the Bush people had when they started the war. At that time they expected the country to become a thriving democracy right after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, and they were horribly wrong.

I know of no evidence that the Iraqi politicians are any less irresponsible than our own. All indications are that their leaders, like many of ours, will not cooperate with political rivals and just continue to look out for themselves and their narrow constituencies.

So removing our forces anytime soon will only result in more disorder and violence.

Edgar Pearlstein, Lincoln

Flood plain will be considered

Over the past five years, the city of Lincoln, in conjunction with the business community and other interested parties, has been working through a process to present an arena plan to Lincoln voters.

Gene Rauscher’s letter to the editor (LJS, July 6) intimates that the various committees that have studied the need for a new arena have not been truthful about the flood plain status of the proposed West Haymarket site.

From as far back as the Convention, Sports & Leisure study completed in 2004, public documents related to the West Haymarket area acknowledge that much of the property for an arena and other development opportunities in the West Haymarket is within the mapped flood plains.

This has led to a community goal to implement quality site preparation and other proper flood management techniques to provide water storage capacity lost because of any proposed development in the area. With the use of modern stormwater techniques, the potential flooding threat within the 100-year designated flood plain can be safely mitigated.

The mayor’s West Haymarket Action Team is committed to providing many opportunities for public engagement over the next five to six months to hear the input, ideas and concerns of Lincoln residents and provide additional stormwater information, a proposed financing plan and the future timeline for the project.

This input and information will be key in preparing the final design, including how stormwater issues will be properly addressed, before any specific proposal is presented to the City Council and ultimately, the voters.

Kent Seacrest, Lincoln

Messy venue disheartening

Teach your children well … unless you were one of the attendees that went to Stir Cove to see Crosby, Stills & Nash on Sunday night. It was so disheartening to see such a cohesive group of people enjoying music and messages of peace and hope, only to have to navigate the piles of trash left behind by concert attendees.

Despite ample garbage cans placed all over the venue, the amount of trash was overwhelming, and I was incredibly disappointed to see the complete lack of respect for the venue, other concertgoers and the environment. So I guess today’s generation of earth-conscious kids can set the example and teach their parents well.

Laurie Fraser, Lincoln


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Edgar wrote on July 18, 2008 8:49 am:
" Our troops have done all they can in Iraq, it's time for them to come home. Leaving them in Iraq without a mission is ridiculous. "
Nina wrote on July 18, 2008 9:00 am:
" If Edgar had written his letter four years ago, I would have agreed. But this has gone on so long, it appears there's no end in sight. We should not, and cannot allow that to happen, for the good of the US, and for the sake of Afghanistan, where we're stretched too thin. Of course, if he were a soldier serving his third tour in Iraq (scratching at sand flies while sweating in 110-degree heat in a flak vest and helmet, and being constantly on alert of danger), or members of that soldier's family, he might have different priorities than he does as an older man, sitting in the comfort of his desk chair, mulling over Iraq, so far away, just as I'm also doing right now. "
Why wrote on July 18, 2008 9:04 am:
" does the name kent seacrest seem to have a sound of big money to it? The well to doers in lincoln want everything so the lower middle class and poor folks can pay for it. Vision 2015 is made up of several of the "upper class" people. These people want and usually get whatever they want in the city. I doubt that anywhere in the nation is a city controlled by a select few. You want surveys? Go to the areas of town where people are struggling to keep a 100,000 dollar house, then take that result to the mayor. I can do surveys all day long and have them come out to fit my needs. You just have to be willing to go where you have the right answers that fit the survey "
Tammy wrote on July 18, 2008 9:50 am:
" Mr Seacrest...with all due respect, I'm sure that's exactly what the people and towns in the "100" year flood plain along the Missouri river were told by the powers that be as well. Some of those communities have had 2 "100" year floods in the last 5 years. "
Kent Seacrest wrote what wrote on July 18, 2008 10:03 am:
" OK, Kent, to paraphrase your letter:
1. Yes, the 2015 group the Task Force, and the developers know the proposed site is in a flood plain, and
2. You have plans for more "public engagement" events to tell us not to worry about it, and
3. The public's input will not change anything about what 2015 plans to do. You'll just choose the least objectionable "buzz words" when you present the final plan to the City Council. "
Laurie.... wrote on July 18, 2008 10:16 am:
" I go to concerts all over the nation and never do I see so much trash then I do around here. People expect someone else to pick up after them and or just don't care. It is sad that someone really can't walk 5 feet to through a cup away. I was always taught to pick up after myself and never expect someone to do it for you out of respect. I guess people have no room in their lives to think of others. "
Still will flood wrote on July 18, 2008 10:54 am:
" kent- Do "proper flood management techniques" include rebuilding all the levees for salt creek by bringing in off-site soil that does not have such a high calcium content? The soil in these levees will easily erode once saturated with water and currently are not even thought to be sufficient to contain a 50-year flood.

I enjoyed your "wordy" letter, but a few of us in Lincoln still have brains and can see through your rhetoric. "
Hard to believe wrote on July 18, 2008 11:03 am:
" The "well to doers in lincoln want everything so the lower middle class and poor folks can pay for it"???? I find that tough to swallow. I think the "well to doers" can easily afford "everything" and the "lower middle class" can't. So explain how rich people would possibly expect the poor (who have no money) to pay for ANYTHING?

I'll stick to the statistic that the rich pay for most of everything anyway. But you go ahead and believe what you want.

Thanks Vision2015 for all you're trying to do. "
Dave wrote on July 18, 2008 11:33 am:
" The closest the average working person will get to attending an event at the proposed Arena will be fighting for an $8 per hour job there selling concessions part-time. "
Sad wrote on July 18, 2008 12:29 pm:
" This is a town known for NON-cooperation. The rich & "click" control the
town by the out of sight property valuations and taxes, which keeps the
unwanted out of the city. The 2015 Group could care less whether the
middle and lower class can afford the taxes or to live here. This is how
they keep business out and only cater to their own little "click". How
many projects does the Scotts have going and projected, elected, and golly gee maybe we'd better rename the town "Scotts, Nebraska!!! And so
what if the arena is in the flood plain, the taxpayers will dig up their
last time to fix the problem!!!! If theres any left! "
To Ed wrote on July 18, 2008 12:36 pm:
" Wasn't Saddam an Iraqi politician? Vietnam went on too long, Iraq has went on too long. Leaving is good, its overdue, and it will work. We can't afford to stay. After 'Mission Accomplished' it became, and still is, 'Nation building' - something GW campaigned he would not do. FlipFlop. Bye Bush, No McCain. "
Rob wrote on July 18, 2008 12:51 pm:
" Edgar, why again should we stay in Iraq? To throw more billions of our money away? To put more American lives on the line? To have our government take care of someone else's country when ours is in dire need of attention? Oh, thats right. Those pesky terrorists will attack us again if we leave. I forgot. Sorry, but I'm afraid our own country is in need of some work before we try to patch someone else up. "
Think Larger wrote on July 18, 2008 12:57 pm:
" While Mr.Pearlstein and those that share his belief have recieved much attention over the last four years there are some of us that are convinced that this Iraqi war has been a raging sucess based on the larger,less politicalized view. if you could look at what has transpired outside the scope of U.S. politics and just look at the sucesses it would help the enitire process.In regards to Al-Quida we have drawn these barbarians out of their caves and forced them to fight on the open plane of the deseret.We have forced them to spend HUGE amounts of money in Iraq and no thanks to the New York Times have found where and how they move thier money.(You might want to read the paper to find out that the Taliban has gotten into the marble quary business to fund it's terrorists activies...which should tell you they are strapped for cash).We havn't lost thousands of our military lives needlessly crawling thru every cave in Afghanistan.
We have freed the Iraqi's from a dictator who had no qualms about using chemical weapons on his own people as well as Iranians during an 8 year war.We had rid the world of his two manical son's and terrorist grandson.We have repaired neglected infrastructure that was used as a weapon against those whom Saddam wanted to punnish.There are no more rape rooms,throwing prisoneers off of 5 story buildings and general terrorism used against common Iraqi citizens.They have crafted a constitution,formed a court system,rebuilt and retrained thier police and military.We (they) have opened schools and universities.We (they) have held 2 elections and will hold another this fall.They have signed contracts with 41 oil companies to develope and expand oil production as well as distrubition of those funds.
In addition to all that has been accomplished we have demotrated to our Arab allies in the region that they can count on the U.S. to answer the call when barbarism runs amok in that area of the world...yes we do have arab allies in the region.We have shown that democracy will work in that area of the world....even the Kuwaities have held elections.
I would also like to add that this Iraqi war has done wonders for those that have politicalized it the entire democrat party that have used this war to conn all of you who voted for them in the last election on the primise that they would end the war NOW...they palyed ya! Look at what this war has done for Barrack Hussein Obama.Look at what it's done for the Dixie Chicks,Michael More,Code Pink,Barb Striesand,The cast of "The View",MSNBC,NBC News...the list is endless! I beg of you to look at the Hollywood careers of has beens that have been resurrected....and you still believe it was a fail? "
Don wrote on July 18, 2008 1:08 pm:
" At the start of the war in Iraq it was almost universally accepted that the war was a good idea. In hindsight, we can criticize almost anything and anyone. I am not saying that mistakes during the war were not made. They were. But it was not a mistake to go to war in the first place. But as anyone can see now, (that is if you are not watching only CNN, etc.), is that the war has been successful, and Bush has said that troops can start coming home. Of course, he is going to be cautious to make sure that things be done properly and in order and at the right time. "
Say it aint so wrote on July 18, 2008 1:10 pm:
" Oh say it ain't so Ms.Frase...didn't ya every see pictures of Yasgrs Farm after Woodstock?? This is nothing new for this generation of spoiled Dr Spock raised brats. Throughout their lives we have had to listen to how they changed the world but it was always up to "others" to be nonmaterialistic while they were buying the BMW's,Mcmanison's,designers jeans and perrier.This generation was/is the biggest group of hyprocrits the worls has ever bore witness to! How do I know this?? I'm one of 'em!
As for their children and grandchildren?? Laurie you might want to research the last Fish concert in Vermont....the "New-wave" hippies only left behind 7 TONS of trash....wait for it....wait for it....SHOCK! "
Ben wrote on July 18, 2008 1:15 pm:
" The 100 years war was too long. The Revolutionary War went on way too long. The War of 1812 went of way too long. The Civil War went on way too long. It took too long and cost too many lives to build the Transcontinental Railroad and the Panama Canal. WWI and WWII took too much time and cost too much money.

Liberals, use a little perspective. Wait I forgot, history begins when you were born. "
Grundle wrote on July 18, 2008 1:17 pm:
" It tickles my funny bone to read some of the seemingly oblivious commenters bash on Ed Pearlstein. He has been one of the harshest critics of Bush, yet they make it seem like he's a dyed-in-the-wool Republican. Where are all of the critics demanding we pull out of Germany? Or South Korea? When did the 'easy way' become the preferred alternative to the 'right way'? "
think before you write wrote on July 18, 2008 1:21 pm:
" a letter about a war that has financially drained this country and has left us in a huge mess that will take a very long time to dig out of. Not to mention the thousands of troops that have died for this worthless cause, and not to forget the thousands of Iraqi kids and innocents who were just in the way of war. I am shocked that anyone is still defending this LIE FOR WAR!!!
Second, people pick up your trash, dont litter. We have one planet, one earth, and if we dont take care of it, who will? "
Counterpoint wrote on July 18, 2008 1:52 pm:
" If you accept Mr. Pearlstein's premises that the Iraqi politicians are no less irresponsible than our own and that their leaders, like many of ours, will not cooperate with political rivals, then the logical conclusion is that either (1) they have mastered our form of democratic government and we can now leave, or (2) we are engaged in a never ending game of the blind leading the blind, so we should now leave. "
Which way wrote on July 18, 2008 2:09 pm:
" When did invading and occupying a sovereign country in violation of the Nuremberg Principles and the UN Charter’s ban on aggressive war become the "right way" to do things?

And , it is way past the time that we should close most, if not all, of our 81 military bases in Germany, 37 in Japan, and 17 in Colombia, Peru, El Salvador, Aruba, Curaçao, Honduras, Ecuador, and Guantánamo Bay. "
Grundle wrote on July 18, 2008 3:10 pm:
" Geez, it's amazing I have to explain this stuff.

The 'right way' I was referring to was not starting the war, but finishing our occupation. Since when did abandoning all of those who supported the U.S. mission become the 'right way'? Vietnam gives us a nice little history lesson on what happens when we just pull out and leave the supporters for the wolves.

As far as closing all the other bases go...well, clearly common sense is no longer a virtue. "
Douglas Novak Crete wrote on July 18, 2008 4:08 pm:
" Let me get this straight they are "our" troops but t his is Bush's war? That is President Bush and this is our war. Just because we don't agree with the action of the President is no reason to disrespect the office with slang. "
Sorry Larger wrote on July 18, 2008 4:12 pm:
" The citizens of Iraq will tell you the infastructure in not better now - dropping bombs tends to worsen, not better. We gave those weapons to Saddam. When he used them in the 90s, we didn't seem to care. Saddam produced plenty of oil, our embargo made it seem not so. And - so your saying Vietnam was a success? You're right - pulling out was. Or should their country still be wartorn with our occupation? Yeah, right. "
Jack wrote on July 18, 2008 4:16 pm:
" Don't you just love the division of our people as demonstrated in these posts? I remember shortly after 9-11 the feeling of unity in our country, I was proud to be a US citizen. Today....not so much. When are our leaders going to think of the struggling US citizens? Gee, uh, never?
Remember the 60's when folks would protest in the streets against a terrible war in Vietnam, and in support of civil rights? Something tells me until people get in the streets again and voice their opinions LOUDLY, the crisis in the middle east WILL NEVER END. 1000 years and millions of deaths later, do you suppose anybody will actually remember how the US got there in the first place? God help us all. "
Edgar Pearlstein wrote on July 18, 2008 5:00 pm:
" Mr. Which Way makes a good point about the large number of our overseas military bases. Reducing them could provide more manpower for Afghanistan.

For example, take the case of our bases in South Korea. Presumably, we are there to prevent an invasion from the north. But South Korea has double the population of the north, and an enormously greater economy. It should be able to defend itself. "
Ok go back to page one wrote on July 18, 2008 7:31 pm:
" Douglas Crete. This is 'Bush's' war and they are 'our' troops. I for one am thankful for the men and women who do enlist and commit to protecting the rest of us when it is necessary. Way back on page one we had the neo-cons scheming and planning this war. Senior was wise enough to rebuff them, junior is on a power trip and took right to the idea. This is Bush's war and he has failed us miserably as a leader by misusing our trust and trading the lives of our loved ones in an attempt to gain glory for himself. As a politician his policy has been a huge failure that we will pay for for at least a generation, as a human being man is utterly despicable! "
its the wrote on July 18, 2008 8:24 pm:
" husker fans. They are excellent when it comes to littering and dropping cups and cans on the ground. I saw some girl throw out a bag of mexican food from her window and didn't flinch. These people must live in bug infested homes and being out in public and disrespect others and the earth probably think we all live this way. Have you ever noticed in the section of the paper for court news and under DUI's the list is getting longer and most people are under 25 that get busted, but hey, drinking is down or so they say. Maybe the kids busted for DUI's could do community service pickin up beer cans and cigerette butts. Some has to do with poor parenting. "
TWP wrote on July 18, 2008 9:01 pm:
" To Think Larger: well said! So many people seem to think that you can just pop Iraq into a microwave and a self-sufficient, stable, democratic country will appear in no time at all. Be patient. But they don't want to be patient, lest the public will start to become optimistic about the future of Iraq and the huge step this will be toward the stabilization of the Middle East. The worst fear of all Democrats currently running for offices in the national election, is that we show signs of "winning the war". That would be devastating to their campaigns. How sad that they have to hope we lose a war, for their benefit. Mr. Obama, is that the definition of patriotism? "
Zoomie wrote on July 18, 2008 9:16 pm:
" Grundle - McCain said in 2004, 2005 and 2006 that when the Iraqi gov't asked us to leave, it was time to leave. Last week - very clearly, and more than once -- the Maliki gov't said they want a firm timeline for U.S. withdrawal from their nation. Bush refused. McCain said no timeline! What happened to leaving when the Iraqis wanted us out? Oh, and today Bush declares a "time horizon"?!?! What does that mean? Or is this GOP-speak for a timeline that can't be called a timeline? "
Right On Don wrote on July 18, 2008 10:01 pm:
" Sorry but it was not universally accepted that the war was a good idea. Most of us knew that creating a power vacuum in the Middle East would be a disaster with 5 religious factions over there clamoring for that power would be nothing but prolonged violence. Both Republicans and Democrats in congress had looks of disbelief on this idea.

You said "Of course, he is going to be cautious to make sure that things be done properly and in order and at the right time." If this really true, at least our beloved leader maybe is learning something new after all. To bad it's happening after all the global carnage. "
Twerp wrote on July 19, 2008 9:02 am:
" No one hopes we lose this war for the benefit of Mr Obama. No one. That is slap in the face to over 50% of Americans. You make that up and act as if it's fact? Good Grief!!!!!! Talk about poliarizing, partisanship. It is sick and twisted to believe something like that.

Besides, Mission has been accomplished, remember? "
Zoome wrote on July 19, 2008 9:24 am:
" And today the al-Maliki gov't officially endorsed the Obama timeline of 16 months for withdrawal for all US troops! Remember - this is a democratically elected, Bush-endorsed gov't, who are now saying they want us gone in 16 months, just like Obama! Kind of makes McSame's position of "10 years, 100 years, 1000 years" appear to be the imperialist conquerer, doesn't it? "
TWP wrote on July 19, 2008 6:12 pm:
" Gee, Twerp, sorry to get you so worked up! The war in Iraq has certainly been a polarizing issue in this country. The sentiment, at least among posters on this board, is that anyone with an (R) behind their name is just another "Bushie", and I wish I had a nickel for every "Bush lied, thousands died" comment. So, let me rephrase it: Winning the war in Iraq would be a huge detriment to the candidates that repeat the Pelosi/Reid rhetoric. If their campaign is based upon "we are not, and cannot win in Iraq", any success in Iraq certainly does not lend credence to their position. That is a fact. As for whether they hope we lose, well they are not going to make any public statements to that effect. Neither you nor I know exactly what they are privately thinking. "
Bubba wrote on July 19, 2008 8:55 pm:
" Once Obama is president the Republicans and their partisanship politics won't matter. He'll get us out of Iraq in 16 months. If they could have only tried to work with the Democrats the last eight years we wouldn't be in all this mess in this country. We would have alternative fuels, less global warming, free health care and terrorists would probably be our friends. I too HOPE FOR CHANGE, but then again I buy lottery tickets. "
Zoomie wrote on July 20, 2008 12:14 am:
" First, Bush has already declared victory in Iraq once. He can do so again, any time he wishes. Indeed, many in the press and even other GOPers have said they hope as soon as things quiet down some in Iraq, that he'll simply pronounce the war won and pull our troops out. Of course, things will still be violent and unstable, but who cares? Nor does "some" improvement prove anything. Currently, yes, violence against Americans is down in Iraq. But its up dramatically in Afghanistan and per Chief, JCS, we lack troops to do anything about it because we tied down in Iraq. And while violence is down in Iraq (only in part because of the surge), the surge is now over and almost no political progress has been made (the reason for the surge, remember?). Things could fall apart any time, and the violence could easily return. The western provinces are only peaceful because we're currently bribing the tribal leaders millions per month not to attack us. In short - until our troops are out of Iraq, there is no guarantee of any sort of peace there. "
ab wrote on July 20, 2008 12:32 am:
" First, Thank you "think Larger" for your well produced arguement, one of few posted. Second, the proposed military withdrawl in Iraq within 16 months is shameful and disrespectful to our country. We invaded the country, and yes that mission is accomplished. However what about the mission to rebuild and give hope to Iraq for a better future? We are reconsitituting the infrastructure that we damaged during the invasion. It takes time to rebuild and teach other how to rebuild. Currently the Air Force is sending twice as many Civil Engineers to Iraq to aid in the reconstitution and teaching of Iraqis to rebuild their infrasturcture. What does it say about us, as a country, to just invade and blow stuff up and then leave it exactly as we demolished it? To me that shows a poor and shameful country and one that cannot be trusted to AID anyone in their struggle. The war in Iraq is a two-fold process: Invasion and Reconstituition, and those things take time. One Mission Accomplished does not mean TOTAL MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. "

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