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Letters, 6/26: President above the law

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Thursday, Jun 26, 2008 - 12:23:40 am CDT

The House of Representatives on Friday said and voted that President Bush is above the law by giving immunity to phone companies involved in the domestic surveillance program. They said the courts don’t need to be involved. We’ll vote on who goes to court!

And as always, those on the right will say the terrorists killed more than 3,000 people on Sept. 11, 2001 — true.

But you won’t hear that the policies of this administration have killed more than 4,100 of our men and women — more than 30,000 wounded and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed. Trillions of borrowed money spent!

Mike Draper, David City

Working for local solution

I’m writing in regard to the article that your newspaper picked up from the Kearney Hub this past week regarding the development plans of Cash-Wa Distributing Co., which has distribution centers in Kearney, Lincoln and Aberdeen, S.D.

The project that was approved by the Kearney Planning Commission is an addition to the existing Kearney Distribution Center and not a replacement for either of the other two.

It is true, however, that the Antelope Valley Project will come through our Lincoln facility (located at 2500 State Fair Park Road) sometime in the future, but that project has been delayed on a number of occasions, and our understanding is that it may not render our property unusable until early 2014. It is our opinion that we have plenty of time to find a local solution, and we will continue working in that direction.

The city of Lincoln has done a great job of communicating the status of the project in an effort to facilitate our planning process, and we are greatly appreciative of that.

Thomas J. Henning, president, Cash-Wa Distributing Co., Kearney

Heterosexuals sinning, too

In response to Pastor Andy Hergenreder (letter, June 23):

Disciplined in the Catholic Church under the gaze of some severe clergy persons, my catechism provided a frank picture of the sins of homosexuality and heterosexuality. Namely, current theology maintains all sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin.  

The act of heterosexual sex without the intent to conceive in marriage is tantamount to the sin of homosexuality in that homosexual sex is outside the realm of possible conception. Therefore, even a heterosexual couple married in a Christian church who practice “unacceptable” means of contraception becomes the less controversial sibling of that “sinful” homosexual sex.

Bad, heterosexuals! Thank God you do not have to suffer all the vitriol from the pulpit that honest homosexuals have endured for centuries.

Pastor Hergenreder’s treatment of biblical Scripture without any actual referencing of Scripture is at the core of why debates on homosexuality are tearing our families apart: The debates are grounded more in preference or prejudice than in Scripture. As followers of Jesus Christ, our first commandment is: Love each other as I have loved you (John 15:12).

Right now, however, Pastor Hergenreder’s perspective on the world as a heterosexual is influencing him more than the greatness of Christianity. His identity moves outside of the mercy and understanding of Jesus Christ. The good pastor undermines in the same breath the argument he seeks to put forth. Let us forgive him.  

Jonathan Winston Jones, Lincoln


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Idiotic wrote on June 26, 2008 4:37 am:
" Mr. Jones, if you wish to stay within the catholic church, then you are really going to be in for a long, (fruitless?) battle. May I suggest the Buddhist "religion". You are what you are and your main objectives are simple 1.) Be nice to people and 2.) Utilize each moment to become the ultimate version of yourself! No judging, no hierarchy involved. Love, love, love.

We have two choices, to look through the eyes of love or to look through the eyes of fear. The eyes of fear equals chaos and is not really a choice; the only choice is love; always has been; always will be. Love, love, love.

Love for everyone: Even if that means bringing cookies to a neighbor that just moved in, or baking cookies and distributing them on the block when you move in! I live in a "rough" neighborhood and suprisingly most of my neighbors came out, talked about themselves, and I know they will watch my property if I go on vacation. I thought I had nothing in common with them but I end up hanging out with them every night, speaking of philosophy and mathematics until after the sum sets.

Two last words for you: Nichmaechean Ethics - by Aristotle "

 Ray-J wrote on June 26, 2008 6:43 am:
" Mike Draper,
Where were you when clinton lied under oath?
According to your line of thought shouldn't he have been removed from office? "

 come on wrote on June 26, 2008 7:21 am:
" "Love each other as I have loved you" Love someone who "alledgedly" has brought war, famine, STD's, floods, droughts, etc. I'll pass. "

 dear john wrote on June 26, 2008 7:37 am:
" One of the best arguments I've heard in a long time. Thank you! and I agree... "

 Edgar Pearlstein wrote on June 26, 2008 7:46 am:
" Mr. Jones provides a good answer to the earlier letter by Mr. Hergenreder.

However, there is an incongruity in Jones' letter: He says that it is a sin to have sex "outside the realm of possible conception". This rules out all sex when conception is physiologically impossible, either because of previous surgery or because of age. "

 jrt wrote on June 26, 2008 8:12 am:
" Mr. Jones is mistaken when he writes that "The act of heterosexual sex without the intent to conceive in marriage is tantamount to the sin of homosexuality." He errs because Catholic teaching says only that the marriage act must be open to the possibility of conception, not that the married couple must have the intention to conceive every time they have sex. This is why the use of contraception is sinful: it attempts to deny the possibility of conception, the same reasoning applies to the homosexual sex act. I don't know if Mr. Jones would still be correct if he wrote "The act of heterosexual sex in marriage while using artificial contraception is tantamount to the sin of homosexuality," but he would at least be closer. "

 Grundle wrote on June 26, 2008 8:33 am:
" Mr. Jones, you are aware of the fact that it is possible to love everyone as human beings, but still not condone the sin. I don't pass judgment on homosexuals, because no matter how hard I try, I still commit sins in the course of my daily life. People should not be forced into acceptance of homosexual activity under threat of being labeled a homophobe. If I don't like something, then a I don't like it. "

 Thank You wrote on June 26, 2008 8:43 am:
" For me the options are clear. Either stick your head in the sand and believe you live in a "perfect world." Or open your eyes, ears and hearts to those around you and at least acknowledge what they have to say or experienced. You might not want to accept it, you might not even agree with what they say. But at least give them the courtesy to be heard and recognized. Trust me, it makes all the difference in the world if the person next to you feels that you have listened to them. Sure acceptance is what I personally strive for but the world we all live in that might not be entirely possible because of our biases towards what we don't understand or even fear. Tolerance, on the other hand, is something we should all seek to achieve with each other. But all of us judge, there's no escaping that truth. Even though it is never in our place to judge, we still do because we are flawed and imperfect. Those who claim otherwise are far from that perception. My only advice is to keep the faith that you adhere to, keep the hope up that we as brothers and sisters in this world are inherently good and also treat others as you would like to be treated. If Pastor Hergenreder wants to cast other people as sinners and inherently evil then he himself is guilty of being a sinner and inherently evil. That's not what God wants or what Jesus preached. "

 Josh wrote on June 26, 2008 8:49 am:
" Methinks some religious types (like "Rev" Andy) are rather obsessed with homosexuals. Can you imagine what a better world this would be if all these "christian" groups who spend so many thousands of dollars on lawsuits and ballot iniatives would spend that money helping the poor, sick, and homelss. I mean, really. WWJD? "

 John Holmes wrote on June 26, 2008 9:21 am:
" I always love the comparisons of Clinton lying about having underdesk service to Bush's lying which resulted in over 100,000 deaths. "

 MarkyMark wrote on June 26, 2008 9:25 am:
" Ray-J you have epitomized the "Symbolism over Substance" attitude. Comparing the Bloody Bush lies with Slick Willie lying about oral sex (even under oath), is like comparing a nuclear missle with a bottle rocket. When Clinton lied no one died. Bush on the other hand, a horrendous amount of blood has been spilled thanks to his misguided idealism....... "

 mitchy_v wrote on June 26, 2008 9:25 am:
" This is exactly why organized religion is a joke. Everybody has a different opinion and everyone thinks that their religion is the only one that is right and everybody else is wrong. How about everybody is wrong, no religion has it right yet? "

 George Carlin wrote on June 26, 2008 9:27 am:
" This is too depressing. Bring back Buddy Jesus. "

 home boy wrote on June 26, 2008 9:31 am:
" When Clinton lied he didn't pile up a 4100 body count of US citizens. I do think there is a little bit of difference there "

 Atheist wrote on June 26, 2008 10:06 am:
" This Religious and Christian thing with their idealism for everyone else, is about as Un-American as anything I can think of. Live and let live and mind your own business. This is America! "

 Above the law wrote on June 26, 2008 10:42 am:
" Retroactive immunity for the telecoms that participated in the Bush wiretapping agenda (amnesty that a Republican can support) goes beyond accusations that Bush lied about Iraqi WMDs. The unauthorized eavesdropping on US citizens not only violates federal law (FISA), it also violates the First and Fourth Amendments to the Consitution. By granting immunity to the complicit parties, Congress has taken the position that the president is not only above the law, he is above the Constitution; i.e., he is an unaccountable dictator. That is much more serious than lying (even under oath) about consensual sex. "

 MarkyMark wrote on June 26, 2008 11:31 am:
" Bush Jr. campaigned by saying that he would be a "Uniter not a Divider". Since his approval rating is at 28%, I would have to agree with the President. He has "United" 72% of us. "

 Nope Ray-J wrote on June 26, 2008 11:34 am:
" Sorry Ray-J, Clinton was found not guilty of lying under oath. Remember, under our Constitution, you are innocent until PROVEN guilty. Since Clinton was found not guilty, he is innocent of lying under oath.

The right keeps bringing up what is in the constitution when it benefits them but ignores it otherwise.

I am not a fan of Clinton either, but the law is the law. "

 Ej wrote on June 26, 2008 11:48 am:
" If clinton would have been taking care of national buiseness instead of his own we wouldn't be in this mess. If you people think that all polititions don't lie your foollish. "

 Liars wrote on June 26, 2008 12:25 pm:
" Cheney lied when he said "they'll greet us with open arms." As did the assistant SOD who said "the war will cost no more than 1 billion, tops." And the funny little man in the jump suit who said "mission accomplished." And Rice who said there were no warnings prior 9-11. ETC. "

 Don wrote on June 26, 2008 12:57 pm:
" David Draper knows not what he is talking about. No President is above the law. There is no such thing as a domestic surveillance program. You have spent too much time listening to CNN, etc. The only thing the gov't was listening to was suspected terrorists either calling to or from the U.S. Why should one need a warrant for that. We are much safer because of this program. The possiblity is always there to listen to everyday conversations, but they can't do that legally. Everything you say about Bush and this surveilance program is true of President Clinton as well.

It is also an absolute lie that the U.S. military has killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Nothing could be further from the truth. Everything the military does is designed to protect innocent civilians. The civilians have been killed by faction within Iraq, not U.S. soldiers. Sure some civilians have been killed, but that always happens in war. You make it sound like the U.S. military purposely killed hundreds of thousands. You owe every soldier an apology. "

 Ponyboy wrote on June 26, 2008 12:57 pm:
" Clinton=liar that got off on a technicality
Bush=too dumb to know he's lying
MaCain=too much of business as usual
Obama=not enough experience to be effective

Can't we get a candidate without a D or an R after his/her name???

Amazes me how we keep rehashing the same old stuff. "

 Bush Bashers wrote on June 26, 2008 1:44 pm:
" It is time for all you Bush Bashers to quit referring to his 28% approval rating. According to the June 2008 LA Times/Bloomberg poll, Mr. Bush has achieved a 23% approval, which puts him #2 on the all time list just behind Truman at 22% during the Korean War.And his disapproval rating is at 73%, which makes him the all time leader. It's time to give him due credit for his accomplishments. "

 MattS wrote on June 26, 2008 2:01 pm:
" Jonathan, thank you for a very well written counterpoint. Finally something decent from a LJS reader and not an incoherent rambling of ignorant, personal opinion. (But don't worry, plenty of those will still be posted regarding your letter) "

 Everything wrote on June 26, 2008 3:03 pm:
" Everything the miliatry does is to protect civilians? Like the Mi Lia massacre? Inventing the Gulf of Tolkin incident to invoke a war? Inventing WMD to invoke a war? Shooting US civilians at Kent State? Firing on US retired army citizens during a protest in Washington DC during the depression? Don, get the the library and read (and of course turn off Faux News). "

 LC wrote on June 26, 2008 3:13 pm:
" Is there any more proof needed that religions are a human social construct, and not a revelation from one of hundreds of super-beings imagined over the millennia? The mind has to be separated into air-tight compartments in order to believe that scripture is infallible and yet continuously justifies bigotry and exclusion when read without scrutiny... "

 Bob wrote on June 26, 2008 3:57 pm:
" Don that must be some pretty nice Kool-Aide you have been drinking.

I'm not saying our military personnel intentionally caused the death of Iraqi civillians, but our invasion has in fact caused the deaths of thousands of Iraqis and Americans. We have thrown their country into chaos without a plan to fix it. The responsibility for that lies at the feet of Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney, Ms. Rice, Mr. Rumsfeld, Mr. Rove, and several others.

As for the domestic wiretaps - they do exist. When Mr. Clinton was in office any wiretaps were approved by the FISA court. When Mr. Bush took over he (and Mr. Cheney, Ms. Rice, Mr. Rumsfeld, et al) decided they didn't need to follow the FISA rules. That makes the wiretaps enacted during the Bush adminstration illegal. Therefore there is a very important difference between Mr. Clintons time in office and Mr. Bushs administration. "

 good wrote on June 26, 2008 4:44 pm:
" going mike. Since I live in a town that has a high percent of retired military I have to add. By doing a small survey in the area its been determined that the high majority of retireds are against this fiasco in iraq. They all have comtempt for bush and cheney. I visited today with a retired marine colonel who was wounded on Iwo Jima, yes,,Iwo Jima. He is 86 years old and holds bush and cheney in treason. Two cowards who want war but don't want to go. Check this history. "

 Jason wrote on June 26, 2008 4:46 pm:
" Just remember Jr. and Cheney would'nt even let them question them under oath. That tells you something right there. I personally think they both and Rummy need to be brought up on charges of war crimes. "

 Dave wrote on June 26, 2008 5:40 pm:
" Clinton illegally wiretapped U.S. citizens like Bush did, huh???? You're either making this up or parroting some fox pundit's baseless innuendo.

Bush's regime only listened to suspected terrorist???? Um... I thought the common understanding was that this electronic surveillance was blanketed across thousands of foreign contacts- millions of phone calls and emails. Anybody have a reputable figure?

And our U.S. soldiers killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis???? Nothing could be further from the truth, eh? First, I haven't heard (or read) anyone claim our soldiers have killed 100,000 innocent Iraqis, intentionally or otherwise. Second, I think saying that thousands of innocent Iraqis have not been collaterally killed would be further from the truth. Reputable estimates are that more than 100,000 Iraqi citizens have died as the result of this war we started. But I don't blame the soldiers, and I don't think whoever you're responding to did either. Why are you flag-wavers so in love with making Iraq like Vietnam? I don't know, nor have I heard, of anyone protesting U.S. soldiers. It's the policymakers you constantly defend who fouled this whole thing up and everybody knows it. "

 Mark wrote on June 26, 2008 8:14 pm:
" For all you complaining about Iraqi deaths and our troops deaths, I just wonder where your outrage is at the countless, meaningless death's that occur right here in our own country from drive by shootings, drug overdoses, dui's, accidents, cancer, strokes, and the list goes on and on every day? To complain about loosing 4000 men and women in a time of war over 5 years now, compared to the USA loosing 4000 men and women in uniform before lunch on many given days during WWII is pathetic. People die in war. Always have and always will. All you crying bleeding hearts need to put this in proper perspective and realize how great of a job our military is doing if all we have lost is 4000 men and women in 5 years of war. America lost over 204,000 souls alone last month (National Center for Health Statistics). Lets keep this in proper perspective. "

 TWP wrote on June 26, 2008 9:39 pm:
" Josh: WWJD? I think he would say to the woman at the well: "Your sins are forgiven. GO AND SIN NO MORE."
Athiest: Yes, this religious thing is totally Un-American. I think you should look at all of your USA money, and if you find a reference to trusting in God on any of it, send it to me.
And to all of you having a fit about whose phones Bushie is tapping, do you recall that JFK illegally had Martin Luther King's phone tapped? Guess it happens to the best of them! Choose a different battle. "

 Original wrote on June 26, 2008 10:43 pm:
" TWP The In God we Trust argument is one that always gets broughten during this argement. However you need to realize that this is a fairly recent addition to our money. This was not on any units until around the turn of the century and did not make it onto all bills until the 50s. So it is kind of similar to if George Bush decided to put In Bush we Trust on all of our bills and 50 years from now someone says see look even our money says this it must be true. "

 MarkyMark wrote on June 27, 2008 8:23 am:
" Mark illustrates the entire problem with Neo Con war...these deaths seem to be just numbers to them. Perspective is comparing the military with the deaths in a country of 300,000,000 people. Perspective is actually comparing apples to apples. Try it. "

 In Bush we Trust wrote on June 27, 2008 8:31 am:
" "In God We Trust" was put on the US money back about the civil war days. Which, by the way, is illegal according to the US Constitution. "

 dish wrote on June 27, 2008 10:31 am:
" Yes it says "In God We Trust" but it never specifies which God. Just insert your "God's" name in place and everyone is happy! "

 Re Mark wrote on June 27, 2008 11:40 am:
" Mark presents FACTS, and is still called a Neo Con. Hyper partisanship clouds people's judgement. Let fact soak in before reacting atleast. "

 MarkyMark wrote on June 27, 2008 5:02 pm:
" Mark presents facts, but the fact is no one called him a Neo-Con. What he also presents, is very poor comparisons in deaths. "

 TWP wrote on June 27, 2008 5:27 pm:
" Sorry, I used an example that I thought would be simple enough for Athiest to understand, and it has been nitpicked to death. 1950's, or 1850's, I think we all know which religion was being referred to. So, if you demand more authentic examples, read the numerous quotes from the Founding Fathers. Here is one from John Adams in 1798: "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Why the animosity today toward Christians (and the chic love affair with Islam)? You are not forced to be a practicing Christian to enjoy the freedoms and liberties guaranteed to you as a citizen of this country. The privilege to vote does not require that you belong to any specific denomination or religious sect. Just sit back and appreciate the freedoms granted to you by a form of government that was, thankfully, strongly influenced by Christian precepts. "

 Re Mark wrote on June 27, 2008 6:19 pm:
" Neo con as described in my computers dictionary says "advocating democratic capitalism." What is the world is wrong with that? Some bloggers with repeating names will never get it. "

 comparison wrote on June 27, 2008 6:32 pm:
" The only 2 times I've heard the same word used over and over (Neo Con), is by John Edwards and now MarkyMark. Everyone knows how popular John Edwards is, after failing in his bid to be vice president with Gore, and now his failing at becoming the nominee for President. He's views are not in the majority by any stretch of the imagination, otherwise he would be the nominee right now. Some would argue some people just like to stay things that are so far in left field, all it does is draw attention to themselves, instead of what it should be...the issues. For all the crying some democrats do about being treated equal, it's funny how some resort to name calling, or diversion of the topic so fast when facts are in short supply to them, it's just easier to throw an insult. Pathetic. "

 The resident gay kid wrote on June 28, 2008 1:08 pm:
" How bout this... you stop thinking about what I'm doing in my bedroom, and I won't think about what's going on in yours.
Sounds about right to me... "

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