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Letters, 6/23: Don't blame the liberals

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Monday, Jun 23, 2008 - 01:02:01 am CDT

Merlyn Braunsroth’s letter about liberals lying about President Bush (LJS, June 16) makes me wonder on what planet he and letter writer Wayne Simpson are living. Conservatives always blame the problems they create on “liberals.”

Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, not as a push for terrorism, but because Kuwait was angle-drilling under the Iraqi border into its Rumaila oil fields and because of a dispute over the real border as Kuwait was once a possession of Iraq.

Braunsroth obviously forgets who the president was at this time, because it was George H.W. Bush who decided not to push the military to Baghdad (not the liberals as he suggests who prevented the military from finishing the job). Senior Bush, unlike his son, knew that occupying Iraq was a bad idea at that time. Actually, the U.S. ambassador, April Glaspie, was quoted as saying to Saddam, “We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait.” Assuming that Bush didn’t care about him invading Kuwait, Saddam felt that the United States would not intervene. But Bush knew any conflict in the region would increase oil company profits.

And, wrongly again, Braunsroth tries to say that this was the reason the terrorists attacked us on Sept. 11, 2001, forgetting that none of them were from Iraq, but from our friendly neighbor Saudi Arabia. There were no terrorists in Iraq until after we invaded and put the Iraqi military out of work.

If President Lincoln were alive today, I doubt he would see “the divisiveness and immorality liberals have wrought on our country,” as Braunsroth says, but actually the attempt to wreck the Constitution, the ignoring of habeas corpus and the use of torture for which the Bush administration is now responsible.

If Braunsroth would actually study history and stop listening to all the garbage the Republicans make up (and Fox News), he might actually learn that another word for “liberal” is “progressive.”

Craig A. Wagner, Lincoln

The death of tradition

Funerals of loved ones are hard enough, especially if the death was sudden or for someone very young. I recently attended the funeral of my friend’s young son. The service was attended by a great number of people, and most of them joined the burial procession to the cemetery.

With all those people, we thought for sure it would be police-escorted. However, we were informed just before we left that police could not be spared for such unimportant tasks.

I was disgusted to see how many cars disrespectfully cut off the procession, sped around us or did not allow us to reach the cemetery together. People need to learn funeral etiquette and give up 5 minutes of their time to respect grieving family and friends. What happened to cars yielding to a funeral procession, or pulling over and turning on their headlights?  

Most of this shocking behavior could have been avoided had the city provided just one car to escort the procession and ensure traffic safety at busy intersections. Not only would this have been an additional safety measure, it also would have added dignity to the suffering family. Why should the residents of Lincoln have to grieve the death of tradition and respect because it costs the city a few dollars?  

Mary J. Oswald, Lincoln

The sins of homosexuality

Once upon a time, homosexuality and the homosexual community were distant concerns for those who led the local church.

How is it a reality in our day-to-day ministry? We are faced with friends and relatives, co-workers and church leaders who in one way or another are dealing with homosexuality. It is an issue that confronts us in the newspaper, on the television and in our local schools. It is an issue that is tearing apart friendships, churches and homes.

What about the person claiming to be a “practicing homosexual Christian?” Scripture speaks clearly to this. A person who makes such a claim is making two contradictory statements: 1) I am a practicing homosexual, and 2) I am a follower of Jesus Christ.

Which one supersedes the other? Which one is most basic to their identity?

If a person says “Christian,” then as a disciple of Jesus their sexuality must bow in obedience of Christ and what the Scripture says about the sin of homosexual behavior. If a person says “practicing homosexual,” then God and Scripture must bow to their sexual orientation, and this makes homosexuality an idolatrous identity for the practicing homosexual. Their identity supersedes their identity in Christ. Anything above God is an idol!

 Pastor Andy Hergenreder, Kimball

Capitalism at its finest

On the news Thursday, a gaggle of top Fed enforcement people told us how many arrests and indictments they have gotten lately related to the subprime and investment banking crises.

I was amazed at the sheer number of people and funds involved. But I was more amazed by the lateness of all this legal action.

The subprime situation hit the wall last year. The hedge fund mess is just a bit behind. But that means the circumstances lending themselves to these abuses have been going on for years.

I’ve lived through two administrations that believed in laissez-faire capitalism. I didn’t think one could be more irresponsible than Reagan. I was wrong. Bush wins.

The consequence to the public of unfettered capitalism is like that of true socialism, because a small group of elite people control most of the wealth of the country. The next administration must rebuild our protections against one of the most dangerous defects in the capitalistic theory: “Let the buyer beware.”

Steve Poots, Seward


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Zoomie wrote on June 23, 2008 6:32 am:
" Craig, good letter! But care to bet some wingnut will bring up the fact that Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War? But what they won't mention is that Lincoln wrote at the time that it was a horrible thing to do, and he hated doing it. They also won't mention that Lincoln took it to Congress as a measure requiring Congressional approval, and then submitted it to Supreme Court review on his own volition! Contrast that to George W. Bush, who suspended it selectively and secretly, who has argued for 4 years that no Federal Court can or should have any say in his decision, and only brought it before Congress after years of lying and obstructing in telling what his administration had done to our beloved Constitution (I'm still mystified how anyone who claims to be a small-c conservative can possibly support Bush, who's virtually every act has been contrary to what conservatives claim to believe in - the Constitution, no man above the law, small government, fiscal responsibility, etc.)! "

 Christian wrote on June 23, 2008 6:52 am:
" And, Andy, the Bible says we should kill all homosexuals, and adulterers as well. I hope you are actively leading the charge in support of all this as well. Otherwise, as a selective theocrat, you lob your cherry-picked Bible verses around to sustain your selective ministry.
Seemingly to your chagrin, you may be confronted with homosexuality now but what you claim as the distant concerns from once upon a time was actually people so scared of being their true selves that they often lived lies and tormented themselves, some of them to death. It still happens today, it's just that we can't ignore it now. If that bothers you, I suggest you find a different profession. "

 Sorry Steve wrote on June 23, 2008 7:07 am:
" Your theory holds no water. The financial markets are anything but laissez-faire capitalism. Financial markets are among the most heavily regulated markets in existence today. "

 CS wrote on June 23, 2008 7:11 am:
" Tradition doesn't pay bills. If you wanted an escort, and when presented with the information that one could not be spared, you could have offered to pay the cities portion of the time that officer was 10-10. The Grand does this on weekends, or at least Douglas did, with their off-duty but still available if necessary, LPD officers. "

 Dont blame LPD wrote on June 23, 2008 7:19 am:
" While it is quite sad that our society has regressed to the point that several of our fellow citizens don't have the common decency to honor a funeral procession, I wouldn't blame the police department. Ms. Oswald clearly has no clue how understaffed they are nor the challenges they face daily. "

 question wrote on June 23, 2008 7:29 am:
" Pastor, what ever happened to thou shall not judge? "

 jmk wrote on June 23, 2008 7:52 am:
" Pastor Andy is right on! Thank you Pastor for a perfect explanation of this "touchy" subject. "

 SB wrote on June 23, 2008 8:17 am:
" Does holding the bible above God constitute an idol? "

 Edgar Pearlstein wrote on June 23, 2008 8:23 am:
" It seems that, to Mr. Hergenreder, intolerance is the essence of Christianity.

It's true that homosexuality is called an "abomination" in the OT. It's also true that the word is used 152 times (KJV), and there is no priority list as to which "abominations" are most important. Here are a few:

Eating certain kinds of fish and fowl. (Leviticus 11:10-23)
Various kinds of fortune-telling. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)
Wearing clothing usually worn by the opposite sex. (Deuteronomy 22:5)
Remarrying a woman after having divorced her. (Deuteronomy 24:3-4)
Being "proud in heart". (Proverbs 16:5)
Burning incense. (Isaiah 1:13)
Charging interest for borrowed money. (Ezekial 18:13)
Uncircumcised people in the temple's sanctuary. (Ezekial 44:6-9) "

 aj wrote on June 23, 2008 8:42 am:
" Andy, another piece of scripture for you: "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" or how about "judge not lest ye be judged" or try this one "the greatest of these is love". Hate and intolerance have no place in the heart of a true Christian. "

 Perry wrote on June 23, 2008 8:53 am:
" Once upon a time, Jesus told his followers that their main concern should be taking care of the poor. Where did that go? When did abortion and homosexuality - two things barely mentioned at all in the big ol' Bible, and one of the two not mentioned at all - become the most important thing Christians could worry about? Take care of your neighbors and brothers and sisters on this planet and they might feel welcome to becoming a Christian, but don't tell them how to live. The Bible also states that God views all sin as equal in his eyes, so please take that mote out of your eye before trying to dig around in mine. "

 mitchy_v wrote on June 23, 2008 8:56 am:
" Where do you draw the line on who does and who doesn't get an escourt? Yes, it is nice to have then, but it is not what our police are for. "

 Sue F. wrote on June 23, 2008 9:00 am:
" I would like the pastor to tell us where Jesus spoke against homosexuality. I have read the Old Testament where we are told homosexuality is a sin along with many other sins that we now choose to ignore such as planting two different crops in the same field or wearing garments made with two different clothes. But where, Pastor Hergenreder, did Jesus ever speak against homosexuality? "

 leave it wrote on June 23, 2008 9:03 am:
" hey Andy, i do respect your views on homosexuality. However i am not gay myself, but i really do not care if someone chooses to be gay. I have no opinion one way or the other. Its the world we live in and if you can't handle it? well...tough! So do me a favor in the future and leave your religious ramblings to yourself because i nor anyone else wants to hear em! "

 Oh Andy wrote on June 23, 2008 9:09 am:
" Do you also think it is contradictory to eat shellfish and be a Christian? Because shellfish are also an abomination. I'm guessing not. This selective reading to attack one particular group is just the opposite of what Christ would want. "

 Nina wrote on June 23, 2008 9:11 am:
" Yes, Pastor Andy, scripture can be interpreted that way. But if you interpret the way you have, all kinds of weird stuff - wearing certain fabrics, certain colors, eating market beef, etc. would be banned, while giving up one's daughter to be ravished by a pack of strange men to make them feel welcome would be allowed. Others interpret the Bible other ways for the times in which we live. However, other admonitions seem quite clear, and don't need interpretation - "judge not" for instance. Now if you will excuse me, I must tend to this "log" in my eye. "

 More sorry wrote on June 23, 2008 9:13 am:
" The financial markets are so tightly regulated Enron, CDOs, Bear Stearns, etc, etc were just our imagination. Greed knows no limits. "

 peb wrote on June 23, 2008 9:14 am:
" Aren't we tired of dragging out and using those same old weary, tired seven or eight Bible texts to clobber our gay sons, daughter, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends over the head? Surely there must be something more productive to be up in arms over? Like the fact that 1,000s of Nebraskan children go to bed hungry every night? Like the fact that Nebraska has 100s of homeless families? The list could go on. "

 and another thing wrote on June 23, 2008 9:14 am:
" Mary, i will agree with you that people these days do not respect a funeral prosession the way they should and i am sorry for your loss. BUT! if you want to have a police escort lead your prosession?...then PAY FOR IT!!! Dont just expect it and then complain when it doesn't happen. Maybe they did not know you were having a funeral? Did you call them and make them aware of your situation? Did you ask them for a police escort? So dont you dare blame the Lincoln Police Dept for any of this. Thank you! and have a nice day mary!! "

 Yup wrote on June 23, 2008 9:23 am:
" Sorry Mary, Lincoln is too large to expect a long funeral procession to proceed together to the cemetary. You can't expect to have a police escort for every funeral either. Don't get upset, I'm sure most people who got in the middle of the procession didn't mean disrespect, it was just because the traffic signals were operating and traffic was flowing as usual. I would much rather people learn to obey the emergency vehicles (ie ambulances) right of way. I've seen way too many people not pull over to the side to allow them to pass. I've even seen people on O street cross the street when the sirens are sounding a block from them. "

 Dave wrote on June 23, 2008 9:39 am:
" Andy, It's too easy, especially these days, to get caught up in deconstructing the language of Bible and losing Chirst's message: Love God and each other, and follow my example. If a Christian church doesn't have that, then it doesn't have anything. "

 Bob wrote on June 23, 2008 10:00 am:
" One solution to Andy's message of intolerance - make a donation, in his name, to a charity that supports those with whom he disagrees. By the way, make sure he gets notification of your donation. His church's address can readily be found on the internet. "

 SRO wrote on June 23, 2008 10:25 am:
" To the Great, Almighty Pastor Andy Hergenreder of Kimball: So, are you NOT a practicing SINNER??? A sin is a sin is a sin.... Give it a friggin' rest already!!!! Sheesh! "

 MarkyMark wrote on June 23, 2008 10:26 am:
" Can someone tell me how otherwise bright people can ignore human logic while buying into the Bronze Age Mythology of woshipping a mean-spirited, vengeful, and violent Got that man portrays in these stories? "

 show some respect wrote on June 23, 2008 10:34 am:
" Don't hold funerals around noon. If you do, you are asking to get cut off. This may not apply to Mary, just in general. "

 Chip wrote on June 23, 2008 10:40 am:
" I read these "comments" and contribute to them more often than I should. I just wanted to make an observation and inject my opinion. I wonder how many of us who write in regularly would actually be as discourteous in person as we are anonymously on the internet? It is really sad that some of us carry such animosity, bitterness, cynicism, cruelty and biting criticism in our hearts. We are who we truly are behind closed doors when no one is watching. It is unfortunate that we are either getting our "jollies" by putting others down, finding it necessary to "put others in their place", or valuing our own opinions so much that we are compelled to share it with the readers of this website. It comes down to a lack of respect for others and selfishness . . . .PERIOD! We spout the importance of tolerance, understanding, courtesy, concern for others, etc . . . but, do we practice it? I'm as guilty as the next person. I am not perfect nor do I pretend to know everything. Liberals and Conservatives are both guilty . . . both sides treat the other side with disdain and disrespect. It is an unfortunate symptom of many in our society who place their own needs above the needs of others. We blame our government, but we commit these "sins" ourselves, in our homes, when we're driving, when we're shopping, etc . . . We name call. We criticize. We show disrespect. We beat down. We trample on those "below" us. We value our needs, opinions and desires over the needs, opinions and desires of others. We are selfish, lacking in courtesy and lacking in respect. I'm going to try to do better by caring about my neighbor more and I challenge all of you to try to do better as well. It doesn't matter whether you are on the right or on the left. We all need to be more caring for our brothers and sisters and start treating people like we wish to be treated. We really need to stop anonymously and venomously attacking people and try to make sites such as this, forums for civilized and productive discourse. "

 Luke Peterson wrote on June 23, 2008 10:57 am:
" I don't even know where to begin...

Pastor Hergenreder, your message about such issues only makes you look intolerant and ignorant. I pray that you don't teach children that. Your attitude that there are no openly Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transgender people in Nebraska makes you look intolerant and ignorant. I hope that you don't preach to your parishioners that. Your message that my sexual identity clouds my moral judgement because of the supposed sheer improbability that these two things couldn't possibly coincide with each other makes you look intolerant and ignorant. However I have faith that you haven't fully bought into your own rhetoric because children of God and followers of Jesus don't spread messages of hate towards each other. But "Good Christians" on the other hand, do just about anything to make sure that their superior moral conscience doesn't get threatned with the reality that we as God's Children do actually live in.

I honestly don't know how many times I have to say this but LGBT Nebraskans are our family members, friends, co-workers, neighbors and yes, even fellow parishioners. To spread your message of ignorance against LGBT folk IS TO SPREAD MESSAGES OF HATE TOWARDS THE VERY PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE!

Get it?!
Got it?!
Good!
End of story.

Any questions? "

 Outside the Box wrote on June 23, 2008 11:34 am:
" I did not know the Church of Homophobia has a parish in western Nebraska.

I hope someone from this church runs for Congress or the Unicameral so we can force him/her to "denounce" the views of Pastor Andy "

 beerorkid wrote on June 23, 2008 12:08 pm:
" Really wondering why the anti homosexual letter was printed. Whats next some racist literature? "

 mitchy_v wrote on June 23, 2008 12:40 pm:
" Would they even print an "anti-christianity" letter? "

 Bubba wrote on June 23, 2008 12:48 pm:
" I still find it hard to understand why someone who doesn't support Homosexuals is called a homophobe? Who says they are afraid of them? That's like saying if you don't vote for Obama you must be a racist. "

 Don wrote on June 23, 2008 1:01 pm:
" You Bush bashers need to get a life! He is leaving office soon and all your troubles will be over. Obama is the Messiah. He can do nothing wrong. No more high gas prices, or food prices. No more hurricanes hitting our coasts. No more terrorism in the world. Everything will be great. No one to blame anymore for all the troubles in the U.S. You people will have nothing to do.

Regarding homosexuality. The Old Testament Law has been done away with. We no longer follow the Law of Moses. We now follow the New Covenant. Read the New Testament for what is taught on this subject. No, Jesus did not teach hating the homosexual. He loves everyone. However, He does condemn the act of homosexuality. Love the sinner, of which we all are sinners, but do not love the sin. Read the book of Romans for further teaching. "

 Not Police Officers escorting wrote on June 23, 2008 1:13 pm:
" Mary- The many of the funerals I've been to over the last 5-10 years have not had a "police escort". Usually the "security" lead car and two backup cars are provided by the funeral home to lead the procession to the cemetary. They usually only have yellow lights replacing the blue and red above the car representing caution/warning to drivers.

It is the responsibility of those setting up the funeral to make sure the funeral home provides this and it is not the responsibility for the city to pay for officers to have cars for each funeral. Check and see how many deaths there are in todays paper... do you think the city can provide a few police officers for each of these?!?! No they can't... and no we as taxpayers won't pay for it. Again... it is the responsibility of the funeral home "security service cars", and has been that way for many years. You might just have been mistaken thinking these guys are real officers. "

 the topic of homosexuality wrote on June 23, 2008 1:16 pm:
" Really, it astounds me that people think they can change people's views on homosexuality at this point. If you are okay with it, chances are, you're not going to suddenly hear something that sways you in the complete opposite direction. Those of us who are tolerant, are loving and accepting people that we love. To imply that these are 'bad people' and that we should not support and love them, and to judge how 'worthy' they are of god, or their level of sin, is not what Christianity is about. To be gay does not have anything to do with one's belief in Jesus. And what others believe is nobody else's business. End it, already. "

 eddie wrote on June 23, 2008 1:17 pm:
" Is it stupidity or ignorance when people judge other people's efforts to present morality and then call the presenter of morality judgmental? Do you think these attackers of the Pastor are completely unaware of the judgments of the Pastor they are rendering? If these judgers are that indifferent to reality, it may be that their positions on moral subjects are equally as indifferent to morality. "

 Roger wrote on June 23, 2008 1:18 pm:
" RE: Pastor Andy - this is a good reason I don't live in Western NE anymore. This view is very commonplace there. Why don't you join Wyo. and just be done with it?

RE: Funeral processions - I don't pay taxes so LPD can escort funeral processions. These are really a thing of the past anyways. You honestly can expect to hold up traffic in a city of nearly 300,000 people for this, can you? "

 MarkyMark wrote on June 23, 2008 1:50 pm:
" I agree with Nina to a point but I also think that is the major problem with religion today. People interpreting what they want rather than what is written, thereby ignoring their own sins and bigotry, while chastising those of their fellow man. On the other hand, who in the world could actually say they believe that Noah's Ark happened? "

 Aaron wrote on June 23, 2008 1:57 pm:
" What would Jesus do? "

 mitchy_v wrote on June 23, 2008 1:58 pm:
" Isn't it judgemental to assume that the views of others are that of stupidity or ignorance when people judge other people's efforts. "

 Annoyed wrote on June 23, 2008 2:02 pm:
" So I'm not against homosexuality. I have friends that are gay. I'm for gay marriage. However, I think someone has a right to their religious beliefs. Would you all be this rude and mad if he weren't Christian and maybe a different religion? The letter is not rude or attacking either. He's just stating his belief on a topic that many people find controversial, which is apparent in the tone of many of the responses on here. He's not preaching hate or brining judgment on them, he's just clarifying what the Christian belief is on this topic. Many people today want a religion that they can mold around their lifestyle, but that's not how religions work. If you don't like his comments be the bigger person. Agree to disagree. "

 Ponyboy wrote on June 23, 2008 2:06 pm:
" "I don't pay taxes for . . . " Another selective tax payer. Hmmmm . . . well what do I pay taxes for??? OH YEAH, I pay taxes so that I, and my fellow Lincolnites can have a higher standard of living and afford those services that individually we can't pay for ourselves. That lesson, I learned in 7th grade civics class (thanks for the education Lincoln). I sure couldn't afford to pay for fire protection, police protection, schools, snow removal, courts and jails, etc . . . by myself. Thank you tax payers for helping me out. Are there things I don't like to pay for? Of course. I learned in 3rd grade to get over it. I suggest you complainers do the same. "

 george wrote on June 23, 2008 2:23 pm:
" NKJV MATTHEW 12: 36-37 " But I say to you that for every idle word men may
speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Quoted from Jesus Christ. "

 Jaxon wrote on June 23, 2008 2:35 pm:
" Just to clarify for Bubba: Here are a few definitions of homophobia:

The irrational fear and hatred of homosexuals and homosexual behavior.

The fear of homosexuality as expressed by demeaning images in media texts.

Literally an uncontrollable fear of homosexuals and of homosexuality, but the term is generally used for a negative and contemptuous attitude to same-sex sexual relationships and to those who participate in them.

the negative attitude toward women or men who choose partners of the same sex.

(all these were taken from a Google search)

As for your analogy with Obama/racism and gays/homophobia, the comparison doesn't really work. People who choose not to support Obama generally do so because they disagree with his positions as an individual, not because he is black. However, if they choose not to support Obama simply because he is black, and would also not support any black candidates in general (which is closer to someone who "doesn't support homosexuals," in general), then the analogy would work. It would also indicate a racist attitude. "

 So Don wrote on June 23, 2008 2:36 pm:
" So Don, what Jesus says is "Love the sinner, hate the sin"? In that case we can love President Bush, while not loving all the sins he has committed. I think it's only right. "

 Noah wrote on June 23, 2008 2:38 pm:
" Don, no old testament? Can I ask who of authority threw out all the drivel of the Old Testament, and proclaimed it meaningless? Was that you? The Pope? Who? "

 Charles Jones wrote on June 23, 2008 2:40 pm:
" Yes, Don, Bush is leaving soon. And I hope his, and his cronies, next stop is prison for war crimes. Regardless, all will not be well immediately. The "borrow and spend" Republicans are leaving a nearly $10 trillion debt, crumbling infrastructure, underfunded VA, and the list goes on. But I bet, Don, you and your Repub buddies will start about 1 Febr crying that all has not been corrected. Oh, yah, there is that little thing in Iraq that needs attention, and Osama bin Laden. What ever happened to cowboy Bush's saying he would get bin Laden dead or alive. You Repubs have such short memories; or none at all! And gas prices; remember Bush saying he would "jawbone" the Saudi's? Nah, that probably escaped your brain, too. "

 Scholar wrote on June 23, 2008 2:59 pm:
" There's plenty of nonsense in the New Testement that they ignore too. "

 Spencer wrote on June 23, 2008 3:08 pm:
" Its funny because all Christians say how clear it is. I for one am not a Christian because I dont put all of my faith into a book written many years ago. I have nothing against Christians and I am friendly to them, but when egotistical people who think they are right say something like what Pastor Andy Hergenreder says it is hurtful. I myself am not gay, but I have many friends who are and have to suffer in a country that is supposedly free. Think of it this way though, almost all of us have played that game in elementary school where one person starts with a sentence and whispers it into the ear of the person next to him. By the end of a long line of people, the sentence is rarely the same as it began. The bible has been translated and passed down for thousands of years, so isnt there the possibility that you could be interpreting it differently then as it was meant to be? "

 Mark wrote on June 23, 2008 3:56 pm:
" Who in the world could actually say they believe that Noah's Ark happened. Millions and millions of people, thats who. I guess science and a world flood that is documented by science as fact escaped your mind when that was taught in school. What a truly sad and ignorant question to ask. When the world flooded, how is it all these land animals survived? Ignorance at it's highest on display today. "

 Ryan wrote on June 23, 2008 3:57 pm:
" Holes …holes in someone’s story should always make you weary of something suspicious. One would usually think that this person is lying if they have holes in their story.
For example – if a man and woman are to get married and he’s a wife beater, according to the bible this isn’t grounds for divorce unless the husband basically kills the wife. It is a sin if she lives him and doesn’t work through it – till death do you part.
Hole – gays are judged all the time for their life style that they supposedly “chose,” and the one place that is supposed to exudes god’s teachings of love and forgiveness is to almost to be the first place to kick a homosexual out.
Hole – if one is against a “practicing homosexual Christian,” which is only trying to find their way, and the one problem is the natural attraction towards the same gender, should then that homosexual, knowing the practicing’s of the Christian ways, shun a non-stop “practicing judgmental Christian?” The answer is no! God views all sins the same and since you view homosexuality as a sin, even if I disagree, I am still to welcome you with open arms because love is not judgmental, is it not?
Hole – God is all knowing and all loving. Why would god give some people the problem of “choosing” and others no instinct of having to “choose” their sexual orientation if it were a choice? Isn’t it almost across the board that all sins are presented to everyone? But yet most straight people have never felt a choice was made when they started liking the opposite gender at puberty…weird.
Hole – How can someone tell a child that he is not loved by the church or by an all loving god for something he or she feels they can’t control. If you were told from this point on to stop loving your spouse because it is a sin…let me know how easy that would be for you! Someone loving another person presents no harm to anyone else. If you look at all other sins, some harm comes from this. In fact the only time homosexuality seems to be a problem is when someone chooses to push a sin upon him or her - their judgment.
If Christianity wants to look upon being gay as a sin – fine so be it – that I can not change, but to every Christian consider this, if you view it to be wrong…maybe gays are presented in your life to test your ability to not give into the sin of judgment! "

 Ray wrote on June 23, 2008 4:19 pm:
" Its good to know even though we have our differences about sexuality some of us are smart enough not to use Christ as a way to demoralize and bash people that really struggle with this life decision. My salvation and spirituality is something I take very personal. Its hard enough living in these last days and I am just trying to keep my head above water. I don't have time to measure someone elses sin when I should be thinking about mine. "

 Christian wrote on June 23, 2008 7:35 pm:
" The issue I have with the Pastor is that he is not simply clarifying the Christian belief on homosexuality, he is clarifying HIS belief and using his status as a pastor in order to convince people that he is clarifying THE CHRISTIAN belief on homosexuality. He convinced one that's what he was doing. How many countless others will be deceived as well? How many of his flock and others? "

 What wrote on June 23, 2008 8:08 pm:
" There is no "Christian" belief on homosexuality. Among Christians, there IS a difference of opinion. This pastor has as much right to teach his understanding of what the bible says as a pastor with an opposite position has to teach his/her understanding of biblical law. My only question is why do people spend time writing letters to the editor. I have to question the wisdom and judgment of anyone who wastes their life writing letters to the editor. Why I'm wasting my life writing this is a mystery to me. "

 Justin wrote on June 23, 2008 10:53 pm:
" Dear Pastor Andy,

I would just like to say that homosexuality is NOT a sin. And I will tell you why. Science have proven many times that homosexuality is given to you at birth. So, in that case, why would God hate homosexuals? I mean it's just like hating a left handed person, or any other disorder or anything they are given to at birth (I'm not saying homosexuality is a disorder, it is an abnormality, yes.) There's nothing wrong with it.

Your practiced religion defies logic and science. I'm sorry, but until you can prove that God exists and he/she/it does think bad upon homosexuality, you're facts and views are indeed inadequate and therefore should be ignored. Yeah, so I questioned the Appearance of God, but you know what? So what? America isn't bound to one religion. So says the bill of rights. "

 ns wrote on June 24, 2008 12:13 am:
" Uhhh Mark, what "world flood that is documented by science"??? Did they teach you that in school? I hope it wasn't a pubic school. "

 science wrote on June 24, 2008 7:47 am:
" hasn't science disproved many of the stories of the bible? "

 Spoiler wrote on June 24, 2008 8:50 am:
" God isn't real. "

 MarkyMark wrote on June 24, 2008 9:47 am:
" I am going to have to agree to disagree with you, Mark. I was brainwashed into religion from toddler until about age 30 when I started needing some real answers. As a Roman Catholic, I could not believe our religion was shaped by the despicable Romans who had turned Christ over to be crucified. I found that very strange. Noah's Ark has got to be the biggest Mythological story in biblical history (other than Creation itself). Two of every animal and creature would not have begun to fit on an ark only 300 cubits long. The thing the I find the most incredulous is that an all knowing all loving God would be so cruel as to destroy the entire world with the exception of Noah's family and 2 of each creature. It astounds me that everyone else was evil and that God is that nasty. Also whats puzzling is, it would have taken about about 10 more arks just to house the food for all these animals, birds, insects, etc. And where did all the water go that was several miles deep? Last but not least, the mythological flood was aorund 4,500 BC while Creation supposedly around 6,000 - 8,000 BC. We KNOW that the earth is several hundred million years old. It's hard not to believe science. I have studied a lot of bibles in my day and the more Theology I got into, the more I'm convinced of it's mythology or the "Greatest Story Ever Told". "

 How convenient wrote on June 24, 2008 11:26 am:
" What about a "practicing heterosexual Christian?" Would his/her heterosexual identity come before God and therefor would be an "abomination" because his/her/its identity is held above God's word? Wouldn't that be what you call "an idol?" Or just because a person has a self proclaimed straight identity they are off the hook from God's wrath because it's really the "freaks" that "we" are after?

I guess the easiest solution is to hope that AIDS kills them all, right? "

 The token gay teenager wrote on June 24, 2008 12:18 pm:
" Can I remind you guys, that there are GLBT christians as well?
Because here we are. I know of a friend of mine who is a campus life leader, that's right, she is gay, and teaching your kids about the bible and christianity.
This isn't an us v.s. them issue. It's us v.s. ignorance issue.
Almost all of my friends who are gay and lesbian have at some point attempted suicide because of the shame they felt in their identity. Now why would someone be more apt to kill them selves then try to change if God didn't make us this way? "

 Zoomie wrote on June 24, 2008 12:28 pm:
" Actually, to be fair to Mark, I think he's right that there WAS a great flood, and that there is evidence of it. Problem is, the evidence was created by the survivors. China, for example, has tales of a great flood (estimated at sometime around 3,000-3,500BC), as does the midEast, as does India, and several other regions of the world. But the evidence is documented in pottery, carvings and wall art from those places. So, yes, I think there was a very, very wet time in history in which there was massive flooding. No, it didn't destroy the world and everyone in it! "

 Clarification wrote on June 24, 2008 1:33 pm:
" Actually, there were SEVEN of each clean animal on the ark. There were only two of every UNCLEAN animal, so the story gets even more unbelievable. It's right there in the Bible, but most Christians have never actually read it, so I don't expect them to know. "

 think about it wrote on June 24, 2008 1:59 pm:
" if the story of Noah and the Ark are true, there has been a lot of inbreeding going on. "

 ns wrote on June 24, 2008 3:52 pm:
" Re Noah's flood. There are many flood stories recorded in ancient writings, and why not--- floods happen, often disasterously, and in areas where people like to live. But the great flood of Noah, that stupendous globe-encircling, life-destroying, mountain-burying event of the old testament simply did not happen. Not only does it pose impossible geophysical problems, there is no credible geologic or paleontologic evidence to support it either (I'm a geologist; I do that stuff). Certainly sea levels have risen and fallen many times through earth history---- plenty of evidence for that--- but nothing even remotely approximating the OT account. If you want to believe it, you'll have to believe it was a miracle for which all the evidence was removed because it gets zero support from science. "

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