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Letters, 3/13: Nebraskans nullified law

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Tuesday, Mar 13, 2007 - 01:34:00 am CDT

I used to think democracy and justice prevailed here in Nebraska. Maybe I watched too many Justice League cartoons or listened to my idealistic father.

Whatever the case, I can tell you that the scales fell off my eyes when I heard that the Legislature’s Education Committee decided it was in Omaha and Lincoln’s best interest to push through Sen. Ron Raikes’ bill, LB658, his solution to the problems he created when he sponsored LB126.

I used to think that a majority ruled. Now I know that it is not the majority, but the minority with the most power, influence and money.

In November 2006, a majority (more than 56 percent) of the people of Nebraska voted to repeal (make void, nullify) LB126. According to Webster, then, LB126 is no longer a law — it was nullified. 

Nebraskans realized this is a local issue and needs to be dealt with as such. LB234 did that and needs to be brought back to the committee and passed on to the rest of the senators; many of them represent Class I schools. 

When Nebraska spoke, the Legislature’s job was and still is to put the Class I schools back the way they were with all of their assets. There are no more choices to keep them the way Sen. Raikes planned, just one job.

Now, please concede with professionalism. Do what Nebraska voted you to do: Rescind LB126 in its entirety. Do the right thing!

Jennifer Krahulik, Lyman

About respect for health

The smoking ban debate still goes on.

Those opposing the ban argue rights and financial problems, both weak issues.

The issue is health, man! If a smoker has no respect for his own health, how can he be expected to be concerned about someone else’s?

Jerrold C. Hood, Lincoln

Keeping youth in state

Your newspaper has asked its readers the question, “How do we keep young Nebraskans in Nebraska?” “How do we stop the brain drain in Nebraska?”

I’m in shouting distance of 30 years old but have not forgotten the answer. Evidently I’ll be forgetting soon — so before it’s too late:

You keep young Nebraskans in Nebraska exactly as you would attract young people from any other state to Nebraska. What would it take to bring southern Californians here? New Yorkers? Floridians? An airport in Lincoln served by public transportation? Buses running after the nightclubs close? Cabs downtown instead of cops?

Let those that want to consider the question use their heads.

John Baty, Lincoln

Vision of private business

After reading the story with the headline declaring the “wide approval in polls” for the 10 “pillars” of the Vision 2015 group (LJS, March 5), I decided to take a little time and review what we know so far. I’ve checked their Web site and reread the Lincoln Journal Star coverage to date. Parts of this are really bothering me. 

I’ve had several discussions in a variety of settings and the first comment is always the big unanswered question: “How much will any of this cost?”

“Do we want to move the State Fair?” is a completely different question than “Do we want to pay $70 million to move the State Fair?”   To report 48 percent indicating support … I believe that was with no cost estimates. Tell us what we might spend, and then do the polling!

If we can come up with $70 million (for one pillar and the only number I could find), how much do 10 pillars cost? Which pillar do we address first? Who says? What else might we want to do with a large sum of money? I want to put seat belts on school buses.

Vision 2015 is a discussion among private business people.  Where are the voices of our elected officials on this issue?

Susan Ferris, Lincoln


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whatever wrote on March 13, 2007 5:33 am:
" Right on Jennifer! Raikes and his like ignore the wishes of the people. It's unfortunate how far our country has fallen. "

oh silly me wrote on March 13, 2007 8:14 am:
" Of course...because we have an unlimited amount of money to reconstitute all of those schools. I forgot about our massive budget surplus! Seriously, Jennifer, all that the repeal vote did was repeal the law. So, Class I's are legal again. However, because the REPEAL WASN'T WRITTEN CORRECTLY, the districts were not automatically reconstituted, nor was that what was on the ballot. The Class I supporters (who really have drug this on far too long) had their chance and they didn't do it right. Find an appropriate and fiscally responsible compromise in the legislature and lets get this overwith. Continually pushing for things to be "put back the way they were" even after buildings and land have been sold, teachers rehired, etc, will only alienate those of us who did support your cause in the past. "

It's a start wrote on March 13, 2007 8:19 am:
" John - You've barely scratched the surface but you're on the right track. Nebraska does little to encourage and even less to keep the youth in this town. Let alone attract youth from outside to our over taxed, under acheiving state. Not only do the youth leave, most retirees leave because they can't afford to stay. But that's another issue. Something needs to be done. "

Why stay? wrote on March 13, 2007 8:52 am:
" The good jobs are in larger cities, there is NO social life in Lincoln and extracurricular activities are nil. Why would someone choose Lincoln over Kansas City, Chicago, Denver, etc? Without the companies that pay competitive salaries (ie. larger corporations) and with one of the highest tax levels in the nation, what is the point. My wife and I live in Lincoln because we have been here since college (15 years ago) and have good jobs that we have worked up to. If we were to graduate college today, we'd be gone the day after graduation to reap the rewards that larger cities offer...Nebraska, Lincoln in particular, need to attract larger companies, lower taxes and provide more of a "night life" to keep young professionals here! "

JP wrote on March 13, 2007 9:51 am:
" John, the way to keep young Nebraskans in Nebraska is really simple: create jobs! That's it, plain and simple. We have essentially no manufacturing or technology jobs, you know, the one's that actually pay a living wage. We don't need any more retail, fast food or other types of service jobs that pay barely above minimum wage. My job pays around $30k/year (after 5 years). In most other cities it's starting wage is around $40K/year. Do the math, it's pretty easy to figure out why people leave. "

Dream on wrote on March 13, 2007 10:07 am:
" Gee, I'll bet if we can get the State Fair all figured out, and maybe a racetrack in place, all our youth will be making almost $8.00 an hour in our new service jobs we've been attacting......we're just about to turn the corner, I can feel it, Lincoln's almost made it out of the 1970's!! Face it folks, this town will always be 30-40 years behind the rest of the world. A progressive city this is not, nor will it ever be!! At the rate we're going, I'll bet we'll have another #1 in the future, the highest rate of welfare and food stamp recipients in the midwest....now there's something to be proud of! "

Get it Right! wrote on March 13, 2007 11:00 am:
" Well, oh silly me, at least you got your name right. Exactly how did the people that started the petition not get the repeal written correctly? The petition stated, "To repeal LB 126 in full." How could it be any clearer? The Nebraska Supreme Court in their ruling stated, "if the voters reject LB 126 the act will stand repealed. To repeal is to rescind or abrogate an existing law. See Black’s Law Dictionary 1325 (8th Ed. 2004)." READ BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY! According to this ruling, if LB 126 was repealed, all parties would be restored to their pre-LB 126 status as though the law had never existed. There is no room for any other interpretion on what the repeal did. As for it being too late to go back, that's what Raikes wants everyone to think. He had the opportunity to prevent this mess and chose not to. "The number of signatures collected doesn't mean there is broad dislike of the law, given that about 92 percent of registered voters didn't sign the petitions, said state Sen. Ron Raikes of Lincoln, chairman of the Education Committee and introducer of the merger bill. He said the law should not be suspended or repealed." - October 24, 2005 Associated Press (Lincoln Journal Star) "Sen. Ron Raikes of Lincoln said trying to change the law before voters decide the issue would be premature. 'I think you honor the process by leaving the law the same,' Raikes said after his committee met in an executive session." – November 18, 2005 Lincoln Journal Star This is no longer just an issue about Class One Schools. It is about our right to vote and to have that vote recognized. It is about the power that we, the people, have expressly retained for ourselves in our Constitution. If this vote is ignored, we are sliding down a slippery slope away from democracy, and opening the door to ignore future votes as well. "

Dave M wrote on March 13, 2007 12:18 pm:
" I'm still fairly young and I just moved here from a "big city". The kind of self-loathing inferiority complex shown here is quite irrational. Anyone not familiar with the place would think we have a gas station and a church and that's it. What did I consider when I came here considering relocation? How much do houses cost? 100K less than where I lived. How much are taxes? Income and sales slightly lower, property slightly higher. A wash. What are the quality of life ramifications? PROS - Much lower traffic congestion, easy walking access to amenities where I live in the Southwest (numerous bars, restaurants, shops, movie theater, etc), lower crime. CONS - no pro sports or opera company - which I go to maybe 2 and 5 times a year respectively. I can still watch the former on TV and the latter is available within a few hours drive. What do "big cities" have except more of the same types of bars and restaurants, and pro sports/arts which consume a minuscule fraction of entertainment time for the vast majority? Gimme 15 minute commutes every day and a luxury house under $500K I can live in every day and I'll drive to Chicago a half dozen times a year for opera and to KC a couple times a year for football and call that a darn good trade. I had a choice of Minneapolis, Shanghai or Lincoln. I'm here, I'm no naive native booster either - I've lived in multiple countries and multiple states. Lincoln ranks pretty high all told. People who get all bent out of shape about "big cities" have more than likely never lived in one and think it's all like it is on TV and that living in LA means a huge luxury apartment and partying with Paris Hilton. It doesn't unless you are ultra rich - living in LA means paying $1500 a month for an efficiency unless you want to be caught in the crossfire and dealing with traffic that takes an hour to go 15 miles. Sure you can eat sushi at 4am - if you can afford it and find a parking space within a mile. Who cares? Decent jobs will attract decent candidates. Lincoln itself is not going to be an obstacle to anyone with a brain except the vapid insecure pseudo intellectuals whose self-worth is tied up in their zipcode. Trust me we can do without them. "

Good Start wrote on March 13, 2007 12:27 pm:
" John's article regarding the 'brain drain' is a good starting point for discussion. As a Lincoln native who chose to stick around after graduating college, I can say that the one thing that kept me here was realistic expectations. Could I have gone somewhere else and potentially earned more? Probably. However, I knew that the cost of living elsewhere would balance out much of the extra income and the quality of life may not be what I would have in Nebraska. There are many that claim that Lincoln is boring or lacks quality entertainment. While there may be some things that would be nice to have in the area, it is a simple matter of economics and the viability of bringing things to a town the size of Lincoln. The thing is - if entertainment venues were built, how often would they really be frequented? For instance, if the new proposed arena is built, I might see one or two concerts per year, but I can just as easily drive to Omaha or Kansas City if I need entertainment. Several college friends of mine moved all over the country - some for jobs and others because of a need to experience the big city (Washington DC, Denver, Houston, etc). Now that they are in their late 20's or early 30's, many of them are moving back to Nebraska because they are ready to settle down and raise their families. 'Kids' who are 22 or so when they graduate college are going to spread their wings and see the world - that's just how things are. Some may eventually come back to Nebraska and others may find another place that makes them happy. Instead of looking at the 'brain drain' of people leaving, the state really needs to look at marketing itself to bring people back. "

Des wrote on March 13, 2007 1:12 pm:
" Well, I remember these discussions over the brain drain from the days when Nelson was Governor. Little has been done since then to reverse the trend. And I am not seeing a whole lot of leadership from the state government so far. I have seen proposals come and go and most of them simply whither on the vine, sadly. As for myself, once I have my degrees in hand, I'm out of here. I want to go to the bigger cities, find better oppotunities for my skills and education than I can here in Nebraska. The saddest thing is that those with bright ideas and vision are usually shunned by the good ol' boys who hold the power and the strings. Change, even positive and growing change, is too disruptive to too many mindsets. I will at least give the 2015 Vision group points for trying to do something to improve situations. Hopefully the current sets of frictions between the 2015 group, the local government, and naysayers will not utterly destroy attempts to improve the city. "

My dear first start wrote on March 13, 2007 1:31 pm:
" Aparently your quality of life is different from mine.. I prefer a place with friendly people, especially when traffic is bad. A place where there is no need for police in the schools. A place where taxes per month don't exceed your house payment. Where you have lakes,entertainment,golf and a friendly relaxed atmosphere. Where people actually help out their fellow man and expect nothing in return. Money isn''t everything as you will find out as you grow older. Oh, and I did find that place and it sure wasn't lincoln. I certainly am not encouraging people from lincoln to move here as we don't need their "attitude" "

Dave M wrote on March 13, 2007 1:52 pm:
" Hope you do well Des and there is, to my mind anyway, a big difference between keeping people and attracting them from elsewhere. I wouldn't recommend staying in the same place you were born, for life, to ANYONE who wants to become a well rounded person with an appreciation for all walks of life and cultures. Even with a lot of travel and a lot of education, there is a parochialism and narrow POV that is very difficult to avoid if you haven't experienced other ways of life. BUT trust me even if you find better opportunities for you education and skills in bigger cities, do yorself a favor and after a few years consider how much you are paying in both money, inconvenience and risk for living there and how much you REALLY use those few amenities lacking in medium sized towns like this one. I have no great loyalty to Lincoln - it's a decent place to live and just where the job is to me - but I can tell you I much prefer the scale here to other places I've lived, from LA to St Louis to Minneapolis to Detroit to England and France. Now of course I'm lucky enough in being able to find a high paying job in my field, and I blame no-one for going where the work is. But I can find a high paying job in my field in Chicago or NYC any time I like. There's a reason I'm not looking for one. "

RJ wrote on March 13, 2007 2:37 pm:
" As long as the property taxes are 6th highest in the U.S. and the spending continues like Calif. and votes don't count, only those in power do as they like, and attitudes change, the brain drain will go elsewhere. All you have to do is go to another state and they'll never come back to Nebraska. NOT ALL STATES ARE LIKE NEBRASKA, because I moved out years ago and all this time Nebraska has only gone DOWN HILL!! Didn't take a college degree to figure that out either. Every day I wake up and I'm so depressed and ready to move back to my eastern state, if only some one would help my elders that have been taxed to death. I'm a healthy person, but you can't even go to an ear specialist or have you eyes tested or anything else but what it isn't "come back in 6 months". And people wonder why health insurance and medicare goes up and up and up. I never experienced this in my eastern state. Nebraska is really good at digging every dime they can out of you. So why wouldn't younger people move out. I guess if Nebraska doesn't have the volume of patients they just keep you coming back like you were on a 6 month contract. Its a constant lingo with all the professionals, "every thing looks just fine, come back in 6 months", after they have spent 5 or 10 minutes with you. People need to stop this nonsense. "

JamesR wrote on March 13, 2007 3:25 pm:
" As a 23 year old college graduate from UNL, I must say that if you want to keep us in Lincoln and Nebraska, stop making laws and doing what ever the 60+ crowd wants. They all say that they are worried about brain-drain in the state, but all they do is push us out even faster. James R, small business owner Miami FL. "

Terry wrote on March 13, 2007 4:00 pm:
" Get it Right got it right, except for one thing. We have already slid quite a ways down that slope, and if the remaining "old guard" that hasn't been "termed out" of the Dictacameral manages to instill it's "institutional memory" in the new class of Senators, we're all doomed. It's bad enough that politics, and not the public good, has been the motivation behind the majority of laws passed over the last few decades, both the Judicial and Executive branches of state government have been either unwilling or unable to do anything about it. The issue of the repeal of LB 126 shouldn't even be in the hands of the Legislature. The Supreme Court has ruled, the people have voted, and the executive branch has refused to enforce the law passed BY THE PEOPLE! All the hogwash about the cost of bringing back the Class I's is for the most part, false propaganda, in line with the misinformation that was used to get the law passed in the first place. It's all moot, anyway. It doesn't matter if it bankrupts the state, the Class I schools must be reinstated the way they were. That's what the people of Nebraska voted for, and if that vote is ignored, there are no more rights, there's no more Constitution, and no more Nebraska. "

Dave M wrote on March 13, 2007 4:05 pm:
" Ya know I've lived in quite a few states and one constant has been the tendency of people to think they are one of the most highly taxed. From figures I found we are the 32nd ranked state for income tax, 22nd for sales tax and 12th for property tax (another poster said 6th but be careful - is that the sixth highest persentage or the sixth highest total for a median home? Our 2% or so rate on homes neds to be balanced against the fact that homes are much cheaper than in most states. As far as median property tax on owner-occupied homes go, we are nowehere near top 10 and actually middle of the pack) People need to look at taxes as a whole, especially as some (property taxes for example) are deductible from income taxes. Of course NE is not exactly a low tax state, but we do not have the population density, the industrialization or the number of large companies that could help that. We are FAR from being one of the highest taxed states. Try NJ if you want to whine about taxes. If you want to avoid them move to Alaska. Everything is a tradeoff. I will not comment on the assertion that a state or state government is to blame for the appointment scheduling practices of specific medical specialists except to say.....uhh? "

To RJ wrote on March 13, 2007 4:08 pm:
" I don't see where your letter is dealing with the "brain drain" issue. If you have problems with your doctors, that is not the city or states fault - pick another doctor. I do not see a problem with people leaving Lincoln. We have a nice medium sized town with lower costs of living and safer streets. If we keep growing we'll end up as a big city with less safety and more costs. Keep it medium sized! "

Terry wrote on March 13, 2007 4:33 pm:
" Get it Right got it right, except for one thing. We have already slid quite a ways down that slope, and if the remaining "old guard" that hasn't been "termed out" of the Dictacameral manages to instill it's "institutional memory" in the new class of Senators, we're all doomed. It's bad enough that politics, and not the public good, has been the motivation behind the majority of laws passed over the last few decades, both the Judicial and Executive branches of state government have been either unwilling or unable to do anything about it. The issue of the repeal of LB 126 shouldn't even be in the hands of the Legislature. The Supreme Court has ruled, the people have voted, and the executive branch has refused to enforce the law passed BY THE PEOPLE! All the hogwash about the cost of bringing back the Class I's and the petition not being written correctly, is for the most part, false propaganda, in line with the misinformation that was used to get the law passed in the first place. It's all moot, anyway. It doesn't matter if it bankrupts the state, the Class I schools must be reinstated the way they were. That's what the people of Nebraska voted for, and if that vote is ignored, there are no more rights, there's no more Constitution, and no more Nebraska. "

What about... wrote on March 13, 2007 4:56 pm:
" Legalizing gambling in NE? Lower taxes, provide state revenue, provide entertainment and create jobs? Oh wait, here come our religious contingent again...GAMBLING IS EVIL!!! Yeah, why make progress when an antiquated system can rule your moral and ethical being... "

I'm sick of it...this is asinine! wrote on March 13, 2007 5:19 pm:
" Wow. It sure is amazing how people will throw out the baby with the bathwater when they don't get what they want. "No more Nebraska"? Come on... Class I's are a relic of the horse-drawn buggy days and have outlived their usefulness. Today they are (at least in eastern NE) only a way to provide a way to get away from "those people" that parents may not want their children to associate with. The world has changed, and the sooner that the children learn that we are all the same, black, white, hispanic, gay, Muslim, Christian, whatever, the better off the world will be. The first step to that is learning to get along and you do that by interacting with people, not by isolating yourself. Say what you want about "smaller class sizes" or "closer buildings" or whatever, but we all know the REAL reason why you want your Class I back. You're not fooling anyone. That's why LB126 passed in the first place. It made too much sense not to for many reasons (mostly fiscal). Fortunately for the petitioners, if you can "spin" a topic the right way, you can get them to vote for anything. I saw the ads..."Local Control For Schools". Well, who WOULDN'T vote for that. Except for one thing...that wasn't what it was about, unless you were in a (former) Class I district. Puhleese. "

dfb wrote on March 13, 2007 6:17 pm:
" I did some research on Lincoln's property tax and I could not find anywhere that ranked Lincoln as the 6th highest in the nation. I did, however, find that Omaha's property tax rate ranking is just above the average in the nation and Lincoln's tax rate is lower than Omaha's. Omaha's tax rate is approx 2.07 per 1000 valuation and Lincolns is 1.99 per 1000. When compared to the rest of the country, it looks like Lincoln's taxes are just average and not excessively high. "

CS wrote on March 13, 2007 8:44 pm:
" DFB- that would be 1.99 per 100.00 in valuation. There you go, fixed that for you. If you owned a house you would have known that. "

Woo wrote on March 13, 2007 9:38 pm:
" Rank Nebraska's taxes where ever ya want, but I'm paying FOUR times more property taxes for a lesser house than in my former state. And my state tax in Nebraska this year is over $1,000.00 more than if I were still living in my former state. A set of tires cost me double what I paid in my former state. Former state sales tax is 6%. I'd say there a big difference there!! "

Mike Honcho wrote on March 13, 2007 9:51 pm:
" Upon what basis do you assume that all Class I supporters are bigots? It sounds like an extremely ignorant statement from such a supposedly 'enlightened' person. What you may not realize is that the dissolution of Class I schools forced many parents to provide transportation to their kids' new school, and 1-way trips of 30+ miles are not uncommon. What good ol' Sen. Raikes didn't do was account for HOW to get these kids to their new school after their old school was done away with. Nebraska doesn't end at Highway 81...and the further west you go, the further apart towns, and by default, schools are! Furthermore, don't assume that you speak for ALL, or even a majority, of Nebraskans...as the majority of Nebraska voters decided to reinstate Class I schools. By ignoring a voter mandate, the Legislature is thumbing its nose at the petition process...this isn't just about reinstating Class I schools...it's about OUR LAWMAKERS obeying the law! If you're willing to 'let it slide' in the case of Class I schools, don't be surprised when they give the same treatment to a measure that you support. "

Woo Woo wrote on March 14, 2007 10:30 am:
" All you have done - if you have given an accurate and complete statement about your taxes - is to show that Nebraska is taxed higher than your (curiously unidentified - hmmm wonder why?) former state, Since no claim was made that Nebraska is THE lowest state, you have done nothing to demonstrate that we are highly taxed or refute previous claims. If NE is ranked say 20th in overall taxes and your former state is ranked 45th it's quite feasible that you would see a tax increase, but that would still not say anything at all about the claim that high taxes are an issue in any brain drain or difficulty attracting and keeping residents, since your unnamed former state is not the only place with which Nebraska "competes" for residents. Some people will see tax increases moving here - Alaskans for example - and some will see tax decreases - NJ for example. The point you either missed or decided to igniore is that we are not a particularly high or a particularly low taxed state when compared to all others. It's a 50 horse race after all. I'm pretty sure there is no specific tire tax I doubt that is a relevant argument other than you may not know where to shop for tires here (hint - tirerack.com will ship you tires at good prices with no sales tax at all!), Furthermore this obssession with taxes and taxes alone that many people have is very limiting. What is the cost of housing in a similar size city in other states? I can tell you NEs median home price is definitely well below that of many states. What is the crime rate like? NEs is low. What is the unemployment rate? Low again here. What is the risk of natural disaster? We get tornados from time to time but no floods or quakes or hurricanes. What are insurance rates? Try paying for car insurance in California. If overall expense goes down, or stays the same for a higher quality of life, who cares what percentage one specific tax is? Taxes are just one small part of the decision on where to live, and having lived in many places I find NE to be about a wash as far as total taxes go, with a cheaper cost of living than most places and having an acceptable level of amenities and infrastructure (although I would like to see more highway/low-controlled arterial roads to allow easy access to all parts of Lincoln - that's about my biggest gripe here). I'm sure I'll end up moving again in a few years and I'm not exactly going to have Nebraska tattooed on my arm and start planning to retire to teh Sand Hills, but I fail to see any overwhelming problem with attracting anyone rational enough to make an objective decision without worrying about how cool the place looks on their return address or obssessing over a single specific line item on their cost of living. "

Woo-Boo wrote on March 14, 2007 12:00 pm:
" Poor woo, taxed so much more here than in his/her old state. There is, of course, an easy solution to that. Go back and stop complaining. We may pay higher taxes and we get better services than most states. Go to one of those states and wait at a DMV to see what I mean - or just drive on their roads. Class I schools were a drain on resources and antiquated. I'm sorry, even Western Nebraskans are going to have to accept change every now and again, even if they wish it weren't so. 2007 is here now, in case the calandars are still set in 1958. I'm wondering if the same people complaining about property taxes are those moaning for a return to an inefficient school system. And, Lincoln is ok, but it's not those big cities. Either love it or don't, but it's not too much to ask for things like better public transportation in a city of this size. Look at Boulder, CO and tell me that it wouldn't be easier to live there as a college student than it is here with StarTran. Finally, the legislature may be thumbing its collective noses at the initiative/petition process, and I hope they do it more. The public is hardly in a position to be making public policy at this level. Emotion, ignorance, and fear too often guide the public (someone should read you people Federalist #10) and the choice shouldn't be theres. We elect these people, let them do their jobs. My only wish is that they would do away with the silly process anyway - it never ends up well. "

Woo Who? wrote on March 14, 2007 10:33 pm:
" I guess some are just happy to be led by a dictatorial government. After all, it's a lot easier to listen to what you are told and take what you are given than having to think and understand facts, and stand up against lies and injustice. Class I schools are a miniscule drop in the bucket as far as "draining resources", and have, overall, operated far more efficiently than any other government entity in the state. They've had to because of the constant "drain of resources" they've suffered. If one looks at the facts, and not the propaganda, they'd see that a majority of the Class I districts receive little or no state aid money and ALL of them have most of their property tax revenue siphoned off into other school districts where the Class I tax payers are not allowed to vote. It's sad that there are people who think that the way to save money is to shut down that which is cheapest and pump that money into something that only knows how to solve problems by throwing more of someone elses money at it. But then again, that requires independant thought, reason, truth and courage. All things that are getting harder and harder to find. "