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Letters, 1/30: Stem-cell alchemy

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Monday, Jan 29, 2007 - 05:07:44 pm CST

Does the word alchemy mean anything to you? It was the effort back in history to turn base metals into gold. It didn’t work.

Do you know the alchemy of the 21st century? Trying to turn embryonic stem cells into cures of certain medical conditions. It isn’t working either.

It seems two of the frontiers being explored today are the uses of stem cells in finding medical cures for illness. Stem cells are divided into two main categories: “embryonic” and “adult.” Embryonic stem cells can be gathered only by doing some high-tech cannibalism from a newly formed human being between the ages of 5 and 7 days. Adult stem cells can be obtained from a variety of sources without putting the life of a donor in jeopardy.

Want to know the results from the research from each source of stem cells? (From the Nebraska Coalition For Ethical Research):

* Benefits from embryonic stem cells — zero.

* Benefits from adult cells — 72.

It seems clear to me: In spite of the millions and millions and millions of dollars poured into embryonic stem cell research, we are killing people and not curing anyone … while with adult stem cell research we are curing people and not killing people.

So, tell me: Why is the University of Nebraska Medical Center wanting to continue research on embryonic stem cells? Abortion by any other name still results in the killing of a person.

Allen Ostdiek, Lawrence

Liberal Hagel

Senator Betrayer (formerly Hagel) should register as a Democrat; he is a regular liberal. The terrorists really love liberals. 

During World War II, his kind was held for treason. 

Maggie Seeman, Lincoln

Support for Hagel

I would like to respond to Sandra Heinz’s letter on Jan. 25, as well as other letters I have seen recently.

I would like to let Sen. Chuck Hagel know that he has support for his actions opposing the Bush administration’s plans for the continuation of the Iraq war. This administration has blundered in every aspect of the war in Iraq, and it is time that thinking, responsible people voice their opinions on a better plan to solve the crisis.

Hagel’s actions may align him with some Democrats, but there are a lot of Republicans and others that feel that way also. I would be surprised if there were not a lot of Nebraska Republicans who also supported Hagel.

So, Senator Hagel, continue to show courage in working for better solutions in Iraq.

Jerry Wiggle, Bennet

March for Life

Monday, Jan. 22, saw what many would deem to be a remarkable event in the current divisive political climate. People from different political parties, religious beliefs, ethnic backgrounds and sexual orientations came together in a massive demonstration on the Mall in Washington, D.C., for the March for Life. Several congressmen, including Nebraska’s Rep. Jeff Fortenberry and Kansas’ Sen. Sam Brownback, addressed the crowd.

I was very disappointed at the lack of media attention surrounding this event. Considering the size and diversity of the demonstrators, especially in such a media-obsessed venue as Washington, one would expect more than a few lines buried in the back pages of our national newspapers. Even outlets that some consider “right-biased,” such as Fox News or the online Drudge Report, gave little more than lip service to the presence and message of these marchers.

Sadly, this superficial coverage will further disincline media consumers to trust that they are indeed being given an objective, complete account of the news -- either broadcast or in print.

Richard Fountain, Lincoln


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Ryan wrote on January 29, 2007 7:44 pm:
" It still amazes me how ignorant people are before they start spouting off about Hagel. Of all of the members of the senate Chuck Hagel has supported Bush more than any other senator. More than ANY other. And yet they call him a liberal because he breaks with him on a subject that the majority of Americans believe in. I don't get it. I would assume that peopel who read the paper would be better educated than that. I think the JS must not be doing a good job if there are truly people this ignorant about reality still writing letters. Secondly, what exactly has Hagel done that would be considered treasonous? Anything? No? Try again. "
Get the facts right wrote on January 29, 2007 9:55 pm:
" Allen, you have obviously not read any of the articles about all stem cells, because the minute the article mentions the small strides being discovered with embryonic stem cells you must quit reading. You are closed minded and no one will be able to change it. This subject has been discussed before and apparently you just cant understand anything. "
Ken wrote on January 29, 2007 11:45 pm:
" No cures came from mold until penicillin, good thing they didn't ignore that. An argument that research WON'T produce results because it HASN'T produced results in the past is like me arguing since I DIDN'T catch any fish last weekend, I'll NEVER catch another fish in my life. I'll take my chances and sit in my boat, thanks. If you don't want to waste your personal time, that's fine, but don't ask for dinner when I come home. "
Mama wrote on January 30, 2007 1:04 am:
" Speaking of WWII, Maggie - during that time, G.W. could be compared to Hitler. Remember one word - DEMOCRACY! "
Sean1 wrote on January 30, 2007 1:43 am:
" Allen. Alchemy was based on chemistry and the search for the philospher stone. One of its first adherents was Sir Isaac Newton....you know...the mathematician who gave us the explanation for gravitational force? If you want to make a major breakthrough you have to look at every possibility. Or we could be like you and stick our heads in the sand sticking with the ol "the Earth is flat" theory. "
Luke wrote on January 30, 2007 1:58 am:
" A zygote is not a person. "
Embarrassed_Nebraskan wrote on January 30, 2007 4:14 am:
" Maggie, people like you are the reason I'm ashamed to admit I'm from Nebraska. As far as encouraging terrorists goes, I have three words for you - "Bring 'em on." "
What country do you live in? wrote on January 30, 2007 6:56 am:
" Back in the late 18th century there was a revolution in colonial North America where the colonists, triumphant against all odds, established the United States of America. An amazing thing happened. Those who had been living here under the authority of the British crown were transformed from "subjects," who were expected to follow the orders of the king without question, to "citizens" who were expected to educate themselves for self-rule in a republican system, constantly questioning the motives and conduct of their government and demanding reform when necessary. As citizens, there is no more patriotic act than exercising this fundamental duty of all citizens -- to educate oneself, think, and demand quality government. By most any measure, at present we do not have a quality government. As an independent I'm not at all pleased that Chuck Hagel has voted for Bush's faulty agenda 95.5 percent of the time, more than anybody else in the Senate. Record deficits and more intrusive government don't thrill me at all. However, I'm at least relieved that, whether out of personal conviction or hope for political gain, he is speaking out against an ill-conceived and foolhardy military action where no outcome that can justly be termed "victory" for the US exists, and staying longer and sending more troops will only mean more senseless loss of American lives and treasure. To suggest that he or any other citizen is wrong to think for himself and question the President is to deny the fundamental premise of this great nation. There is a disturbing tendency in current politics that aligning with a political party means surrendering one's own ability to reason, and blindly following whatever party leadership declares correct. Citizens do not behave that way; subjects, on the other hand . . . . "
Karina wrote on January 30, 2007 7:37 am:
" I agree that a zygote is not a person. Furthermore, a zygote is not an American. Finally, a zygote does not pay rent. You'd think everyone on the far right would empathize with wanting to get rid of non-american squatters. "
a cyncial ploy wrote on January 30, 2007 7:41 am:
" Allen Ostdiek's letter, in a twisted logic that will stop at nothing to support his point of view, is little more than a cynical attempt to confuse the debate on stem cell research with propaganda that seeks to mask his argument based on faith with pseudo-science that he hopes will provide the illusion that it's instead grounded in reason. Spare us, and spare my Parkinson's ridden father. You disingenuously withhold basic evidence that nearly all researchers involved in the science believe there is far greater potential to find cures with embryonic stem cells. As others have rightly pointed out, you do so by advancing a perverse argument that because little progress has been made in a technology that has been effectively banned it has no potential. Such ploys result in poor grades for essays in school; used to advance a religious agenda, such shiftiness it is just plain sleazy. "
JT wrote on January 30, 2007 7:51 am:
" Ms. Seeman, if you're trying to directly plagerize Rush Limbaugh you need to write "Senator Betraus" not "Senator Betrayal." The fact is the president has no credibility on Iraq. He and VP Cheney have failed at every point in this war and no longer deserve free reign. It is time for accountability. "
Josh wrote on January 30, 2007 8:00 am:
" If I didn't know better, and were just traveling through Nebraska and saw these letters today, I'd drop everything and get the heck out of this state as fast a possible. What an embarrassing and out of touch group of knuckle dragger's. "
unbelievable wrote on January 30, 2007 8:09 am:
" Now we are comparing Bush to Hitler. Amazing!!! "
Hank wrote on January 30, 2007 8:23 am:
" Hurray for Senator Hagel. After voting with Bush on just about everything, he finally woke up and showed some independence and, frankly, good sense. As for Maggie Seeman's charge of treason, that is one of the most outrageous statements published in the letters to the editor yet. Maggie's disgusting accusation is only outdone by the even more outrageous letter right before it on stem cell research. There are apparently people here in Nebraska who are perfectly comfortable threatening those who dare to think for themselves and engage in scientific inquiry. Hang in there, folks, we will probably get over these outbursts of fascism and religious fanaticism. Still, they sure are depressing. "
Jeepers wrote on January 30, 2007 8:31 am:
" Don't you just love it hearing how Hagel is not doing what the voters of this state want. Remember back in November you had a chance to vote for a Bush lap dog in Ricketts who would do Bush's bidding and yet you re-elected Nelson who voiced opposition to the war. To me, Hagel is doinge exactly what the voters of this state want, not to support Bush in this lost cause of a war. "
Jan wrote on January 30, 2007 8:36 am:
" Sorry Maggie but what terrorists really love are narrow minded followers. People who wont question, just do as they are told, whatever they are told. You are a terrorists dream child. "
dtw wrote on January 30, 2007 8:42 am:
" Rush and Ann don't really believe everything they say. They make ignornant remarks like "liberals love terroritst" to get a rise out of you. Don't be a tool. "
Semantics wrote on January 30, 2007 9:53 am:
" Here we go again, another fine day in the LJS blogosphere. I will make a few points and then let you attack what I have to say...and I will only use science as my premise. 1. A new, unique human being is formed at the moment of fertilization. Whether you call it a blob, and zygote, a fetus, whatever, it is a human being. 2. It is against the code of medical ethics researchers to engage in research that harms or kills humans. 3. ESCR kills the human embryo. 4. It is not ethical to purse ESCR no matter what it's unproven potential is. To note: So far, scientists engaged in ESCR have not been able to control differentiation of the ESC, forming masses of tissue/tumors instead. ASCR (adult stem cell) has successfully been advancing for 2 decades now, curing leukemias, sickle cell disease...recently a paralytic stood up and a novel approach at using ASC's. Also: when you don't want it, it's a blob of tissue, a fetus, something that can be discarded. When you do want it, it's a baby. Interesting how one's desires correspond to how we refer to the developing human. Another point: The argument's been made that an embryo can't survive outside the womb, so it's not 'human' yet. Neither can a newborn survive outside the womb..not without care from it's mother. So, for all your ESCR and abortion supporters, should we just test away? I'm sure if we up the age for legal abortions, we could start to harvest stem cells for research from born humans too. What the cut off age going to be? Conception? 3 month embryo? 9 month fetus? Newborn? 2 year old? 3 year old? Where do you draw the line? Human life is something to be valued and protected. It starts when that egg and sperm fuse together to form new human. Anything else is just arbitrary. "
Chris wrote on January 30, 2007 10:00 am:
" I agree with Hagel about the troop surge, but while we are talking about "thinking people" it should be obvious to all thinking people that how Hagel is going about this is pretty low brow and unstatesman like. And as his colleague Sen. Richard Lugar pointed out recently, it essentially accomplishes nothing. Maybe if people would use a little tact and logic in how they frame their positions we might actually return to a more civil political climate in this country. Just calling Bush a murderer and calling his supporters ignorant is simply fallacious if not slanderous. Besides why wasn't Clinton a murderer too when he sent troops into Kosovo? Bottom line if you hold Bush and his supporters to a certain standard you should also hold those who you may agree with to the same. "
Ironic wrote on January 30, 2007 10:20 am:
" Interesting, it is unAmerican and unpatriotic and ignorant to disagree with Hagel when he questions Bush or argue against stem cell research. It is, according to posters, perfectly American and Patriotic to call Bush Hitler, stupid, incompetent, etc. and attack anyone who does not believe in the snake oil pitch of embryonic stem cells as close minded, ignorant "knuckle draggers". The left is not open minded, Bush is evil, abortion and resulting stem cell research are keys to their religion, and anyone who diagrees doesn't deserve a voice. "
Josh2 wrote on January 30, 2007 10:54 am:
" I find Maggie's letter rather offensive. As such, I thought I would post some quotes: 1) "Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly." (Sen Robert La Follette). 2) "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official..." (Teddy Roosevelt) 3) "We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." (Edward Murrow) 4) "The cry has been that when war is declared, all opposition should be hushed. A sentiment more unworthy of a free country could hardly be propagated." (William Channing) and 5)"Criticism in a time of war is essential to the maintenance of any kind of democratic government." (Robert Taft). "
Connie wrote on January 30, 2007 10:58 am:
" A unique blob of cells is formed at conception, however these clls cannot be a human being until they are capable of existing as a human outside the womb. Once born, a human can be cared for by ANY capable person for the rest of their life, regardless of the degree of care he or she can provide for himself. A newborn can be cared for by hospital staff, adoptive parents, a crack-addicted relative, etc. A fetus depends solely on the body of one particular person and cannot survive if removed from that one particular person until a certain point in the pregnancy. Big difference. Embryos are destroyed all the time for reasons other than ESCR (natural selection before a woman realizes she's pregnant, fertility labs, etc.). It becomes a baby when it can live as a baby outside the womb and not just as a fetus inside the womb. No one is arguing to stop adult cell research, simply that it should not be viewed as the end-all be-all solution. I won't even address the absurdity of your 'where do we draw the line' argument. "
Jackson wrote on January 30, 2007 11:01 am:
" Maggie Seeman, are you serious? Do you REALLY think that Hagel is a liberal? I think Seeman and conservatives don't mix. "
matt wrote on January 30, 2007 11:22 am:
" Its always easier to convince yourself that your point of view is the only right one when you dismiss your opponents as religious zealots. Most proponents of ESCR claim that those against it are basing their beliefs on "religion" instead of "logic" and/or science. Science can tell us about a child's development, but it cannot tell us when the child is actually human because the qualifications of "humanity" are not defined by science. Only logic and reason can tell us when something becomes "human". I've posted this before, but logically speaking there are only two places for a human life to begin - either at conception or at birth. Logically a baby is no less alive the hour before its birth than the hour after its birth - so human life cannot logically begin at birth. Therefore the only logical point at which a human life begins is at conception. There is no logical point between conception and birth at which we can say "this is where life begins". Choosing some arbitrary point in time after conception seems to be the viewpoint which abandons reason. "
Sylvia wrote on January 30, 2007 11:34 am:
" Logic saves the day. If human life begins at conception, then as a race, our only failure is to provide a life support system for all forms of human life. This life support system should not involve any unwilling body. Those so sympathetic to the single-celled humans should stop using their money for torturing women with forced pregnancy, or shamed into giving birth, and start investing in pre-birth life support technology and research. "
reluctant Hagel supporter wrote on January 30, 2007 11:35 am:
" I'm not a Hagel fan overall, but it needs to be said that he is demonstrating integrity by having the courage to speak out for what he believes is right in spite of the fact that it goes against his party. In our current atmosphere, where disagreement with the President on any issue whatsoever is considered treason, I appreciate Senator Hagel's courage. This is, after all, a democracy, not a dictatorship. "
IF wrote on January 30, 2007 11:43 am:
" Being human or not doesn't rely upon when that human can survive outside that womb. Any human needs support and care at any stage of their developement..preborn from mom, born/child from any capable adult, through adult life where one can care for themselves, to geriatric where we need help to survive again. This 'human' starts at birth is just a convenient way to gloss over and make abortion palatable to some. Ever seen the pictures of that aborted blob? Sure looks like a human except for the trauma caused by the abortionist in the process of killing your blob of tissue. Hey, if we're going to kill these early stage humans for the parts, let's harvest the parts from death row inmates, or those older folks or the disabled or anybody lesser than that has no quality of life. Or do you have some ethical problem with that? Death row inmates are going to die anyway, so's your granny or your vegetative teenage blob. How can you maintain your position it's okay to kill an human embryo and not support this further source of parts as well? "
Good Idea! wrote on January 30, 2007 11:56 am:
" Actually, Maggie - I think there are more than a few Democrats (like myself) who'd love to swap you! You can take Nelson and we'll take Hagel anyday! We'd get the better deal by a long shot. "
Not a Liberal wrote on January 30, 2007 12:06 pm:
" Senator Hagel has never been and will likely never be a liberal. He voted with the Bush Administration and the Republican Party more than anyother Senaor last year (not just Nebraska senators, but nationally). So the Liberal Hagel name calling is rediculous... "
Jeff wrote on January 30, 2007 12:13 pm:
" To Allen Ostdiek: the statistics you quote about benefits of adult vs. embryonic stem cell research are meaningless. Why would researchers be fighting the battle for more embroynic stem research capability if adult stem cells were so great? Obviously you are picking and choosing your numbers from biased sources. And as for benefits - research is just scratching the surface so you can't draw conclusions yet. So stop trying to make a scientific argument out of your personal moral beliefs. Just come out and say you don't think embryonic research is right. And then direct your wrath towards the biggest source - that being fertility clinics who produce thousands of fertilized eggs (e.g. human beings) that will never see the outside of a test tube and stop regurgitating other biased reports. "
Captain Logic wrote on January 30, 2007 12:16 pm:
" Mr. Ostdiek claims that adult stem cells are so far reponsible for 72 "benefits" while embryonic stem cells are responsible for 0. Even assuming that those numbers from his biased source are true, he has a key problem with his argument. Of course embryonic cells are not curing anyone--his conservatives do not allow research. What do you expect? If you don't allow funding to study many stem cell lines, how do you expect results? And how can you claim that they are not worthwhile? Funny how the less promising adult stem cells are useful in finding cures. Could it be because they are funded and studied? Shocker. "
BillC wrote on January 30, 2007 12:26 pm:
" There is federally funded research happening on embryonic stem cells. In fact, it's happening right here in our state at the UNMC. There are ESC lines being used for research and have been for nearly 10 years now. And, get ready for this one, no results. There is also adult stem cells research occurring at UNMC and has been for 20 years. They use them in bone marrow transplants, and get ready for this one, successfully curing, you guessed it, nearly 70 different types of cancer. These are not 'made up' statistics. The belief is that since ESCR's are pluripotential, they must hold great promise. And they very well might, but we don't have to kill an embryou to get them. They are readily available in amniotic fluid too (recent discovery from a couple weeks back). So, let's pursue it, but let's quit killing human beings to do it. "
Dave M wrote on January 30, 2007 12:34 pm:
" The options are NOT limited to conception or birth. IF also misses the point about independent human life.

The idea of using the ability to live independently as a criterion for humanity has nothing to do with being able to carry on without assistance. If it did few of us except those expert in hunting, growing food and building shelters by hand from natural materials would be human. I myself would not be human as without people producing electricity and food I lack the skills to survive for very long. This is a ridiculous red herring and strawman. The criterion of independent life refers only to whether a "blob" can sustain its own BIOLOGICAL life. Does it have the biological systems to breathe, to digest sustenance, to circulate blood and other biologuical necessities for life. If not then it cannot be said to be an independent self sustaining biological life. Thus the third option becomes that of independent biological viability. "
Janice wrote on January 30, 2007 12:45 pm:
" I support using death row inmates for organ harvesting, and I am opposed to the death penalty. If they are going to be killed, may as well have them contribute to society before they go. I also support organ harvest from others about to die, by the way of the dying's own desire or that of the family if they are a minor or incapacitated. An embryo created in a petri dish will die unless extraordinary measures are taken to save it. We may as well use the cells of that embryo for something useful before it dies. "
Dave K wrote on January 30, 2007 12:49 pm:
" How can you call Maggie's letter offensive and then cite statements from historical figures telling of the importance of challenging authority? Why do you find Maggie's challenge of Hagel's authority to be offensive? "
Hannity wrote on January 30, 2007 1:03 pm:
" I would imagine that Senator Hagel would view some responses as a sign that he's doing something right. Hagel's courageous fight is not only to bring some sanity to the Iraq Fiasco, but is also a direct challenge to those that want to paint every situation in partisan terms of far left vs. far right. Shows like O'Reilly and Hannity spin and politicize everything from child abductions to Britney Spears latest escapades. It has really gotten comical. Oh yeah, Senator Hagel - if you like terroists so much, why don't you just marry one! "
willy wrote on January 30, 2007 1:31 pm:
" Dave M - the problem with your definition of "biological life" as you call it, is that one can easily think of examples where someone who is clearly a living human being lacks one or more of the "qualifications" you describe. Premature babies are born without the ability to sufficiently absorb oxygen - thereby lacking the ability to breathe, but they aren't discarded - they're placed in oxygen tents and nurtured until they can breath on their own. But according to your definition they don't possess "independent biological viability". People carry around colostomy bags because they lack a complete digestive system - do they not possess life? Creating an arbitrary list of qualifications that must be met to be considered "human" is unreasonable. For every "requirement" there is an exception. "
Josh2 wrote on January 30, 2007 1:34 pm:
" Dave K - Maggie's letter is offensive, not becasue she is questioning authority. No where does she question authority. It is offensive because all she does is to suggest those who do question authority (and the war) a traitors and that 'liberals' are in line with terrorists. Had she use any sort of argument instead of just saying that liberals are in bed with the terrorists, it would be a different story. Name calling does no one any good. Dissent and discussion about the war, on the other hand, are very patriotic. "
IF wrote on January 30, 2007 1:42 pm:
" I would hate to Dave M's parents using his logic. Looks like my son would be ready to put me down as soon as I'm a burden and can't breathe without assistance or eat without a feeding tube. Life is something to be respected and cherished m'boy, not discarded when you feel it can't sustain itself any longer. From conception to natural death with all the rights guaranteed by our Constitution. But, I guess life must be just another four letter word to you. Pun intended. "
CSS wrote on January 30, 2007 2:45 pm:
" Today's letter page, particularly the letter from Maggie, is why Nebraska truly is a terrifying place. You mean to tell me that--as most people have already mentioned--that Ms. Seeman doesn't recognize Hagel's extreme partisanship and dedication to the Republicans and the president through his voting record? He voted with the president, as many others have mentioned, more than ANY OTHER SENATOR last year--and yet, he should be held for treason? Sounds like an indictment of the Republican party, if I've ever heard one. Also, equating terrorists with liberals or Democrats is baseless and truly shows a dearth of understanding that I haven't seen since elementary school. Shame on the Journal Star for publishing this kind of pithy nonsense that does little to encourage discussion, and plenty to inflame passion. The bottom line: Hagel, as a veteran, senator and HUMAN BEING has the right to express his dissent and remain free from being charged as a traitor for doing such. This letter was a joke, and the LJS an even bigger joke for publishing it. "
Hitler and Bush wrote on January 30, 2007 3:06 pm:
" Whats all this about comparing Hitler and Bush. Well, Hitler started pre-emptive wars, occupied other countries, tried to get absolute power in his country, did in the German constitution to do it. Did not listen to the opposition, sent Jews to prison without representation. Now Bush started a pre-emtaive war, occupied Iraq, want to go after Iran, dissolved parts of the constitution with the Patriot act, Acts as his own power on an illegal basis (he has quit this practice now) and does not listen to the 70% American opposition on escalation of the war and jailed inmates in Abu in Cuba and oversaw their torture. Comparison? Nah. "
Kenneth H. Psyche wrote on January 30, 2007 3:14 pm:
" You can tell an interest in a topic by listening to conversations at metro Starbucks. It is quite clear that the people of Nebraska think of Chuck Hagel as a hero. He is saying what needs to be said and should be commended for taking a stand. Like most folks, I think he is doing what he thinks is right, regardless of what others say. Chuck Hagel is truly a class act. PSYCHE! "
Mindless Robot wrote on January 30, 2007 4:19 pm:
" I'd also like to point out that Hagel has a 100% rating from The Christian Coalition so I don't where these, "Hagel is a Liberal" and, "Hagel is an embarrassment to Nebraska" goof balls are getting their info from. "
Start thinking wrote on January 30, 2007 4:41 pm:
" Maggie Seeman is merely suffering from a case of blind loyalty. Most Nebraska Republicans seem to follow this dictum: "You've got to support Bush, no matter what. He may be a moron, and wrong a lot of the time, but by golly he is OUR moron!" "
Officer...Judge...Jury... wrote on January 30, 2007 5:23 pm:
" Treason is defined as the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign. Maggie Seeman is indirectly stating that Chuck Hagel should be tried for treason by WWII standards. Well Maggie, it appears your basis for this opinion is that Chuck Hagel's opinion differs from the presidents. Well your opinion differs from mine. Therefore I decree that you should be tried for treason for being narrow minded and not believing in values this country was built on; one of which being able to have your own opinions and express them while being free from government persecution. However since we're playing by your rules, you'll be tried and convicted of treason for having an opinion. See you at the gallows! "
Lee wrote on January 30, 2007 5:37 pm:
" I don't think anyone is saying it is ok to get an abortion just so stem cell research can be done. I am against abortion for any reason myself, but as long as abortions do happen, what is wrong with harvesting stem cells? I am sure those thinking about getting an abortion are putting stem cell research at the top of their list of reasons why to get the abortion. Get real. They are wanting abortions for other reasons. Making stem cell research more legal or whatever will not increase abortions at all. I imagine the numbers will stay the same. Too bad for the baby. "
Mark Bidrowski wrote on January 30, 2007 6:32 pm:
" Hagel's kind was held for treason in WWII? Unless you mean American citizens with Japanese ancestry, then this is completely false. Last time I checked, this state was very "pro-life," are our service people not "alive"? Anyway, before you guys rip on me for being anti-military, I will inform you that I am joining the Navy. "
wallace mcnabb wrote on January 30, 2007 7:06 pm:
" Most of you don't know what you are taking about when it comes to Iraq. All you know is what has been spoon fed to you. Most of you are brainwashed. Its ok, they did the same thing to the country during Vietnam. Oh yes it is called propaganda by the Left. It is done by telling you that 3000 lives in three years is a great number of deaths and they remind you every night with a body count. Do any of you know that the Saudi's told Iran that they would not have an OPEC meeting to raise oil prices? Do you know why? I don't think most of the people in this country have thought about the consequences of just up and leaving Iraq. If you think the Islamic Fundamentalists will just stay in their countries, then we learned nothing from 9/11. If you think you can "chat" with them like Hillary wants to, you are mistaken. Those people do not talk, they kill if you are not a Muslim or convert to it. I can't wait for 08 when the truth comes crashing down around the so called enlightened leaders in Washington D.C. "
no need for abortion wrote on January 30, 2007 7:34 pm:
" We're talking about embryonic stem cells from surplus embryos no longer needed by couples at fertility clinics which, if not used for research, are simply going to be disposed of. Therein lies much of the confusion that those of us who are watching loved ones suffering from Parkinson's and Alzheimer's experience when we see the new cause celebre of the self-proclaimed "right" to lifers (only as they define it, of course!), appears to be that it's preferable for those unused embryos to by trashed than used for research. How, exactly, is that position grounded in science and reason? Trash is more godly than science? "
dtw wrote on January 30, 2007 9:54 pm:
" Alright I didn't want to get into this discussion but here is my 2 cents. I am against abortion, but I don't think it should become illegal. Why? Because you won't stop abortion. Doctors would be performing these procedures in back alleys just like they were during the 60's and 70's. So what is the solution? Funding programs that encourage safe sex, carrying pregnancies to full term, and adoption options. Aborting babies is going to occur until the earth comes to an end. All you can do is try and educate people from making poor decisions. For example, "I don't want to have kids!" Great, than use protection and realize that you are still taking a chance of becoming a parent. "
the truth wrote on January 31, 2007 2:41 am:
" ms seeman, ignorance and foolishness like yours is why the world is in such bad shape. simply becuase senator hagel has the courage to think for himslef and not follow the lies of the current administration does not make him a betrayer. also in in world war two people were not tried for treason for being educated. and finally, you know what terrorists really love is a foreign goverment invading a soverign nation, removing its hardline goverment that would let no one else have any power and creating a chaotic situation in which terrorism can thrive. "
Zonk wrote on January 31, 2007 4:19 am:
" Wallace, you should yourself when you talk about being spoonfed and being brainwashed. What you say is what the right is spewing as lies. I fought in Vietnam and I see more parallels between Vietnam and Iraq than you or most think. Saying that the Islamic fundamentalists want to convert everyone or kill them is pure right wing propaganda. There are very few Muslims that believe that. What they want is to live in their own country and NOT have America or any other country tell them what government is best for them or how to live. The sooner we learn that, the better and safer we will be. To all you pro-lifers that say embryos are humnan and have a choice should not be killed by ESCR, did they volunteer to be frozen and did they volunteer to be thrown away (killed) which happens when the frozen embryos aren't implanted? Think about that! "

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